And to think kids these days will never know the joys of that. We're not mad things are improving, we're just mad future generations don't have to go through the hells some of us did. Not me, I was too young for rotary phones. I mean sure, I have used some, but only because parents I knew were reluctant to adopt touch-tone as the bleeding edge tech.
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And to think kids these days will never know the joys of that. We're not mad things are improving, we're just mad future generations don't have to go through the hells some of us did. Not me, I was too young for rotary phones. I mean sure, I have used some, but only because parents I knew were reluctant to adopt touch-tone as the bleeding edge tech.
As a 77 year old Model S driver, I feel that is insulting. I love Tesla’s dash and can’t stand to drive a button car anymore. It takes all of 5 minutes to figure out the essentials. A lot easier than a smart phone.
Good for you. My parents are not you. The touchscreen, complex infotainment screens in today's vehicles are unattractive to them.
This is their daily driver: a 2009 Honda Accord
https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/293479/2008_honda_accord_cpe_dashboard.jpg
Center screen shows the following: time, which audio source (CD, AM, FM, or Aux), radio station (AM/FM), which CD/track (for the 6-CD player), and temperature/fan speed. That's enough for them.
Their phone: one of those basic phones that only good for phone calls.
mmd
Active Member
Glad that AAA took the time to do a thorough investigation of this issue. I think the displays are good to multiplex non-critical info, but not so good for controlling functions while driving. Buttons are better, as they can be operated with muscle memory without taking the eyes off the road.
Drivers distracted by new car technology, AAA warns
The other problem, as I mentioned upthread, is the screen can get washed out in bright sunlight if it is not recessed. If you ever looked at your smart phone screen out in the sun, you know what I mean.
Drivers distracted by new car technology, AAA warns
AAA said:
The other problem, as I mentioned upthread, is the screen can get washed out in bright sunlight if it is not recessed. If you ever looked at your smart phone screen out in the sun, you know what I mean.
T-Will
Member
I long for the day I get to drive an M3 with a simple and clean touchscreen interface.
Although, my Honda Civic is about as "simple" as it gets with its 31+ buttons and knobs.
Although, my Honda Civic is about as "simple" as it gets with its 31+ buttons and knobs.
I long for the day I get to drive an M3 with a simple and clean touchscreen interface.
Although, my Honda Civic is about as "simple" as it gets with its 31+ buttons and knobs.
View attachment 252273
Buttons and knobs that you can commit to muscle memory versus looking a touchscreen and navigating contextual menus.
You can navigate contextual menus via muscle memory as well, provided those menus remain relatively static over time. I can unlock my phone, go to the phone app, and call my wife without looking at the screen, because my fingers know the steps. And side from the wipers and headlights, let's not pretend that most people still don't take their eyes off the road to change the radio or adjust the heat, aside from the few that can do the former via a steering wheel pattern.
The buttons aren't really about muscle memory. It's about the number of steps taken to accomplish the desired result. If I wanted to turn my seat heater in in my former Jeep GC, I had to press Controls, and then hit my seat heater button, whereas in my current car it's one press. So the button is favored due to it being half as many steps. But a lot of that just comes from good UX, as it's no more difficult to learn where the button on the screen is than it is to hit the physical button on the dash.
I'm sorry, but there is no way you will commit 31 buttons and knobs to muscle memory. The few most common, sure, but searching for the others is actually far harder and more distracting than hitting the button on a context sensitive screen.
I long for the day I get to drive an M3 with a simple and clean touchscreen interface.
Although, my Honda Civic is about as "simple" as it gets with its 31+ buttons and knobs.
View attachment 252273
Yeah I'm drinving a temp Honda Accord, and man not only are there a ton of buttons, but they're HUGE! The built this thing like one of those flip phones geared towards people with bad vision and arthritis.
I am amazed at how the OP was treated for a simple question. I actually think it should spur some good discussion because Elon's response does also bother me. Its something that Elon states often but these cars even if you pay for FSD dont drive by themselves.. I know because I paid $8k a year ago on my Model S and I still dont have it so him responding that you dont need controls in a Taxi is just idiotic because these cars dont have FSD yet and I personally doubt they will anytime in the near future.
I do think they they skimped a lot on the Model 3 not even giving customers a speedometer in their view and making users look at the screen for everything can cause issues.. Only time will tell.
The issue is that there is no tactile feedback.
I can do an action on my phone without looking but it reduces accuracy. There are times when I type on a keyboard and type 'tan' instead of 'tab' because the 'b' and 'n' keys are right next to each other. On a physical keyboard, I've even typed something like 'giij' instead of 'hook.' The muscle memory works but in this case, I moved one letter over which messed up my entire word.
It's hard to explain but we normally need some sort of feedback (e.g. glancing at a screen) to confirm the action.
WileyTheMan
Peanut Gallery Member
Reminds me of my 71 year old father-in-law. The man decided on a used Tesla a year or two ago and loves the car, even if he doesn't know all the screen functions. And this is a person who hates tech with a passion. I guess the point is that anyone can teach themselves something if they want it bad enough.
I think there is a complete disconnect in the comments being made and what the OP was putting forward as a concern and an important safety topic. Forgive me if I am repeating something already mentioned, I have not read through all 8 pages of this thread.
OP is concerned that there are no gauges or references for driving - ie. speedometer. This is a serious safety issue! If I think I am driving at 65mph, but in reality I'm going 90....that is a concern because I neglected to have the speedometer view open on the central display. try to talk your way out of a ticket on that one.
In addition, there is something to be said about having physical buttons or switches for safety related items (headlights, turn signals, horn). Should there be a software malfunction, you can still drive your vehicle and get to a safe spot without endangering others. That is why ALL vehicles have a manually operated rearview mirror.....it is not due to cost cutting or lack of development.
I am not sure if anyone can identify a road legal vehicle that is missing basic buttons/switches required for driving (speedometer, headlight switch, turn signals, horn). When the Model 3 was released with the lack of instrument cluster, there was the assumption that all of this critical information would be in a HUD......now that we do not have that, are we opening the door for markets or governments to refuse their sale, or will it open the door for other manufacturers to cost cut and remove these necessities.
OP is concerned that there are no gauges or references for driving - ie. speedometer. This is a serious safety issue! If I think I am driving at 65mph, but in reality I'm going 90....that is a concern because I neglected to have the speedometer view open on the central display. try to talk your way out of a ticket on that one.
In addition, there is something to be said about having physical buttons or switches for safety related items (headlights, turn signals, horn). Should there be a software malfunction, you can still drive your vehicle and get to a safe spot without endangering others. That is why ALL vehicles have a manually operated rearview mirror.....it is not due to cost cutting or lack of development.
I am not sure if anyone can identify a road legal vehicle that is missing basic buttons/switches required for driving (speedometer, headlight switch, turn signals, horn). When the Model 3 was released with the lack of instrument cluster, there was the assumption that all of this critical information would be in a HUD......now that we do not have that, are we opening the door for markets or governments to refuse their sale, or will it open the door for other manufacturers to cost cut and remove these necessities.
A lot in your post doesn't make sense. Headlights turn on automatically. I haven't used a headlight switch in either of my cars for years. Horn, turn signals, emergency signals (which you didn't mention) all have physical controls like other cars. Speedometer we'll have to disagree about. In my opinion if you think you're going 65 when your going 90, you shouldn't be driving a car. In addition, you should never be driving faster than is safe, regardless of the speed limit. If you are unable to determine a safe driving speed without looking at the speedometer, then again you should not be driving a car. Finally, however, the car does have a clearly visible speedometer that is as close to your line of sight out the windscreen as any other speedometer.
So what exactly is your concern again?
DR61
Member
It is my understanding that the speedometer is always displayed when moving. There is no option to remove it from upper left corner of touch screen when moving.
List of manual driving controls on the Model 3 that I know of at this point:
Steering
Accelerate/decelerate pedal
Brake pedal
Horn
Turn signals
Headlight flash/high-low beam
Drive/Reverse/Neutral with cruise control/TACC and EAP
Single wipe of wipers
Wipe with washer
Volume of sound system and track selection (context sensitive)
Outside mirror adjustment (context sensitive)
Steering column adjustment (context sensitive)
Perhaps other functions assigned to steering wheel buttons in context?
Any others I missed?
List of manual driving controls on the Model 3 that I know of at this point:
Steering
Accelerate/decelerate pedal
Brake pedal
Horn
Turn signals
Headlight flash/high-low beam
Drive/Reverse/Neutral with cruise control/TACC and EAP
Single wipe of wipers
Wipe with washer
Volume of sound system and track selection (context sensitive)
Outside mirror adjustment (context sensitive)
Steering column adjustment (context sensitive)
Perhaps other functions assigned to steering wheel buttons in context?
Any others I missed?
In your example though, the ONLY thing that has changed between a traditional car and the Model 3 is the speedo location. And to be fair they're not the first vehicle that has moved it to a central location. The model 3 still has a horn, turn signal stalk, etc. Headlights are automatic, which is far safer than ones you manually interact with each time you drive.
And from what we've seen there is no "speedometer view" that you can choose to have and not have. If you're moving, the speedo is there. If you're not in gear, the speedo isn't.
Regarding the phone, not looking reduces accuracy, but consider that the phone is a relatively small device that fits in your hand the same way every time. When you move your body, the phone stays in the same spot relative to your body. You know how far your thumb can reach and muscle memory gives you a pretty damn good idea as to what you're doing when you're not looking. And it's still hard to use a phone without looking.
Now take that phone and blow it up to 10x the size and put it in a static position. There is now limited or zero frame of reference so using that giant screen without looking simply can't be done. You're throwing darts in the dark trying to hit buttons and execute complex nested menu functions unless your attention is fully on that screen. This is simply not safe. Hell, it would actually be safer to link the car to your phone and control its features that way since you can hold it to more accurately control without looking, and we all know how fondly using your phone while driving is looked upon, especially in the eyes of the law.
I think Tesla is a little off the rails with this control scheme. I'm sure it's functional, but it's not ergonomic, safe, or practical. The digital interface is a step toward the future, but the Tesla's lazy and impractical implementation is a step backward.
The Model S gets away with this because it has more controls on the steering wheel and a driver display to better spread out the information and put it in more easily viewable places as well as more real estate in general to make buttons bigger and easier to find/press. There's just too much going on on the smaller, singular, cramped Model 3 screen.
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