Is Creep=OFF better?!

[mknox]

Hill hold? Just shift the left foot to the brake pedal.

I have a (bad) habit of sometimes reaching for the brake with my left foot, especially when there is a risk of rolling backwards. I'll squeeze the accelerator just as I let off the brake to get going.

Model S doesn't seem to like this, and it squawks and throws an error message on the dash.

 

[ckessel]

Hmm, tried creep off, but apparently it's not something saved with the driver profile. Given my wife has creep on, it's another reason for me to leave it on as I don't want to try to remember to reset it every time I'd finish driving.

 

[derekt75]

I have a (bad) habit of sometimes reaching for the brake with my left foot, especially when there is a risk of rolling backwards. I'll squeeze the accelerator just as I let off the brake to get going.

Model S doesn't seem to like this, and it squawks and throws an error message on the dash.

I'm not convinced it's a bad habit (there's no handbrake to use like you could in a manual), and while Model S might squawk, it does what you want it to. If I were on a steep hill, I'd do what you say and wouldn't think anything of it.

 

[Doug_G]

I'm not convinced it's a bad habit (there's no handbrake to use like you could in a manual), and while Model S might squawk, it does what you want it to. If I were on a steep hill, I'd do what you say and wouldn't think anything of it.

I believe Tesla has said it will disable the accelerator if you continue pressing both pedals for more than a few seconds (5?). So I don't think there's any issue if you want to do that to start on a hill.

Personally, as a long-time manual driver, I can switch pedals without rolling back.

 

[mknox]

Personally, as a long-time manual driver, I can switch pedals without rolling back.

Yeah, I probably do the two foot thing more than I need to. I got pretty adept at avoiding rollback when I drove manuals too, but haven't actually owned a manual transmission car for many years. I had my last manual when I happened to be commuting to downtown Toronto every day, and that was not fun. My "clutch leg" would be aching by the time I got to where I was going.

 

[satchy]

My driveway is on a slight hill and I experienced the car moving backwards while maneuvering into the garage. I tried with the creep on and off and honestly didn't notice any difference. I agree a hill hold feature would be useful.

 

[DocDog]

Just received my car a a couple weeks ago, and wondered how it would work on hills, as the exit ramp to my office building has a very steep climb. My experience in this car has been that the lightest pressure on the go pedal prevents the car from rolling back when in Drive. I feel very much in control even on steep hills at very low speeds without worrying about zipping into the car in front of me or rolling into the car in back of me. So from my perspective, the car has a "hill-hold" feature already built into the car, activated by just a light pressure on the go pedal. Have others had the same experience?

As a point of comparison, we also own a Volt and that car appears to have somewhat of a "hill-hold" feature, but the accelerator on that car is trickier to modulate as precisely as the MS. Full Disclosure: I am a former manual transmission guy.

 

[Doug_G]

Yeah, I probably do the two foot thing more than I need to. I got pretty adept at avoiding rollback when I drove manuals too, but haven't actually owned a manual transmission car for many years. I had my last manual when I happened to be commuting to downtown Toronto every day, and that was not fun. My "clutch leg" would be aching by the time I got to where I was going.

Yep, that's the only time manual transmission really sucks - in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Otherwise I always preferred it, especially in snowy conditions. But now I far prefer the Tesla way - it's like having all the advantages of a manual and an automatic put together.

 

[jerry33]

Yep, that's the only time manual transmission really sucks - in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Otherwise I always preferred it, especially in snowy conditions. But now I far prefer the Tesla way - it's like having all the advantages of a manual and an automatic put together.

Me too. I have a relatively steep left turn stop on the way home during my commute (about 6%) and there's just no problem moving from the brake to the accelerator without rolling backwards.

 

[derekt75]

Personally, as a long-time manual driver, I can switch pedals without rolling back.

It depends on the hill and how close the guy behind you is.
Ottawa is flat.
San Francisco has streets with > 30% grades, and anything over 20% makes me want to two foot Model S or reach for a parking brake in a manual.

On those streets, you still need to be quick to move your foot in an automatic transmission, just not as quick.

 

[Doug_G]

It depends on the hill and how close the guy behind you is.
Ottawa is flat.

Ottawa is, but there are places like parking garages with steep ramps. Never had to resort to a parking brake, even with cars behind me.

 

[derekt75]

Ottawa is, but there are places like parking garages with steep ramps. Never had to resort to a parking brake, even with cars behind me.

Well, first of all, I wouldn't be surprised if you Ontario folk are generally more polite and less prone to get up behind someone's bumper than the average American. Regardless, I've never met a parking garage with a "steep" ramp. Parking garages are usually less than 10% grade, with 5-6% being normal.

Some places are steep: The Steeps Of San Francisco In Search Of The City's Steepest Street
I like the map that shows just how many streets are > 20%. It's not a street here or there; you can't drive in the city without driving on a steep street.

or if you just want pictures, images.google.com for san francisco steep street:
san francisco steep - Google Search
Note that the sidewalks are stairs.

In a manual, I've always used a parking brake on these kind of streets. In a typical automatic, your car will also roll backwards (but not as fast), so getting from brake to gas quickly is still important. It doesn't help that there are stop signs at many of the cross streets, so you drive up to the cross street and have to stop on a crazy hill before crossing the street.

 

[jerry33]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't be surprised if you Ontario folk are generally more polite and less prone to get up behind someone's bumper than the average American.

Hmm, must be a different Ontario than the one I'm familiar with. Drivers are pretty much the same everywhere in North America.

Regardless, I've never met a parking garage with a "steep" ramp. Parking garages are usually less than 10% grade, with 5-6% being normal.

Six percent is actually quite steep when you are looking at it from in the car rather than on a piece of graph paper. It's the maximum recommended highway grade in the Geometric Design Standards.

 

[Cirrus]

Creep was one of the two features that I thought I would HAVE to have with the S. When I test drove the S and it had a slight rolling sensation backwards on a hill, I *knew* creep would be an important feature to turn on when implemented. The second feature was interior storage -- specifically lack of a center console.

After owning the S for three weeks, I find I have changed my mind on both of these. I purposesly left creep off when I received the car to see if I liked it. I love it. As everyone has pointed out, the throttle control of the S is so superior to regular cars, that I have had no need to use creep. The one pedal driving where as a general rule, I do not apply the brake at all until about 5 mph when stopping is just fantastic. The creeping back on a hill has been, at least for me, a non issue -- due to the incredible precise response. I just press the go pedal and it moves exactly the same way no matter the grade based on the pressure.

I've also found (although not appropriate to this thread) that I do not miss the center console storage. I really thought I would -- but I found, that 99% of the stuff I had in my previous car, did not need to be up in the cabin. Most of the stuff, I have placed in the footwell area of the hatch (I do not have the kid seats). For parking meter coins, I put those in the door handle area of the drivers door -- they do not rattle.. For registration and parking cards, chargepoint cards, etc. I put those in the kangaroo pouch. the other small items I carry, (flashlight, pencil, tissues, etc.) in the under screen cubby... And finally the glove box holds my small umbrella.

 

[derekt75]

Six percent is actually quite steep when you are looking at it from in the car rather than on a piece of graph paper. It's the maximum recommended highway grade in the Geometric Design Standards.

Steepness is relative. 6% is quite noticeable, yes, but almost no experienced manual driver familiar with their car would use the handbrake on that grade. Somewhere around 10% is considered a very steep climb on a bicycle. The Mt. Washington auto road in NH is famous for being steep, and it's around 12%. 12% is also probably around the maximum a sane city planner would design their streets at. I agree that interstates should be less than 6%, and when an interstate exceeds 6%, it gets all kinds of warning signs (e.g., I-70 in Colorado at 7%).

Still, there are many roads in North America with grades over 20%, and on these roads, I'm not sure why a manual driver would not use a handbrake, nor why a Model S driver wouldn't 2-foot it to get going. (See the pictures in the link in my previous post. That's steep.)

I just think that the sentiment of "I don't need roll back more than 1 cm in Model S, therefore creep and hill hold are unimportant" should be tempered by some perspective that in many areas, a parking garage grade is a small fraction of the grade that can be encountered on a street.

 

[mknox]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't be surprised if you Ontario folk are generally more polite and less prone to get up behind someone's bumper than the average American.

The Greater Toronto Area is absolutely horrid in terms of driving skills, politeness and (go figure) accident rates. I drive a lot in Southern California (brother lives in Riverside) and will take SoCal freeway drivers any day over Toronto. My 2-cents!

 

[jjaeger]

Have tried both On and Off - and for very slow speed maneuvering which for me is mainly into the garage with 1-2" on each side mirror (coming in from a slight incline), On is significantly easier to pull in and watch that I have everything else aligned. Other than this situation, it would be a Don't Care either way.

 

[Kaivball]

I believe Tesla has said it will disable the accelerator if you continue pressing both pedals for more than a few seconds (5?). So I don't think there's any issue if you want to do that to start on a hill.

Personally, as a long-time manual driver, I can switch pedals without rolling back.

This is thanks to all of those idiots in Toyotas that claimed their car was accelerating while pressing the brake pedal.

Now the manufacturers create software profiles where you can't press the gas and brake simultaneously.

 

[mknox]

Now the manufacturers create software profiles where you can't press the gas and brake simultaneously.

Actually, most manufacturers have limited throttle response when the brake is pressed for a while now. For some reason, Toyota was late to this game. Model S is a bit more annoying in that it squawks and throws a warning message up on the dash.

 

[ElSupreme]

I too was a lifelong manual driver. I have had creep off since day one. I did try it out for a few hours, I very much dislike it.

As for roll back I want to bring up 3 points.

The car behind you (even when they are really really close) are not all that close to you. VERY rarely will someone come within 2 feet of your back bumper. As a long time bicycle commuter you can see the gaps between cars at a red light. They are not small.

Your roll back when swapping pedals is on the order of inches, even on really steep grades. This coupled with the previous point means you won't hit anything when you roll back. I actually roll back less (typically) in the Tesla than I did in my GTI, Jetta, or Neon. I could heel toe, or parking brake (which I never used other than to practice) at a stop to eliminate roll back but never needed too.

Lastly most states if you roll back into another persons car it is THEIR fault. It is a following too closely infraction. This was the case in Florida (where they don't need it because there are no hills). And the case in Georgia.

But unless there is a cyclist behind you, or the person behind you panic stopped and almost hit you there isn't really a worry.