You need to pay closer attention to me (like Yelobird and Knightshade do. Perhaps set alerts for my posts) and you'll find my concerns are the same as FTC and CA DMV.
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Is FSD Beta responsible for total destruction of this 2020 Model S?
- Thread starter 2101Guy
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_Redshift_
Member
The accident did happen no matter what the technology is called AP/EAP/FSD/FSD beta...
Tesla Autosteer technology has been known for steering in the wrong direction since the inception of Ap1, Ap2, and now Ap3, so this is not new. That's why it's not a GM Supercruise hands-off and eyes-on feature. It's Tesla's hands-on feature even some want to defeat it by selling some gadgets.
The video showed a truck in front changing lanes from lane 3 to lane 2 on the right, and the Tesla was traveling on lane 1 on the left then hell broke loose as the car veered toward the left into the median.
I have both FSD and FSD beta separately in 2 cars. Before I got the FSD beta, I don't recall such behavior but when I first loaded FSD beta, I immediately experience that behavior on freeways right away even when people keep telling me that FSD beta is for city streets and it should not affect the highway behaviors.
My FSD beta still does as of today while my FSD car doesn't.
This is not unusual because we also have another case cited in the New York Times that the Tesla was doing an Auto Lane Change at 77 MPH from the left lane number 1 and it suddenly slowed down and aborted the Auto Lane Change. It slowed down so much from 77 MPH to 55 MPH and the car behind hit it. It's probably because there's a flashing tow truck parking well within the right shoulder near the highway overpass.
https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/08/16/101991_1_tesla-crash-hp-promo_wg_720p.mp4
Photo: The New York Times
To assign blames, Tesla legally says on the order page that:
"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
Thus, the driver must drive and not give up the car's controls.
In this thread, I think the accident could have been prevented if the driver had hands on the steering wheel.
In the New York Times case, if the driver is familiar with the phantom brakes and controlled the speed to the traffic flow of 77 MPH and not 55 MPH, the accident could have been prevented.
So, yes, the drivers are legally blamed for using a technology they cannot react to timely to gain back the controls.
On the other hand, if these cars had no sophisticated Tesla technology (that reacts to a parking truck on the shoulder and lane changing truck to the adjacent lane but clear of Tesla's lane) and those cars only have simple technology like manual controls or GM Cruise (that are not sophisticated enough to react in the above scenarios like the sophisticated Tesla technology can) then there would not be accidents in those 2 above scenarios.
So, yes, Tesla technology needs to improve so that it should not overreact to those 2 scenarios. Without acknowledgment of the problems and improvements, accidents will continue to happen.
Exactly. No matter how these people like to split hairs, it was one of the two ADAS features that was responsible.
_Redshift_
Member
I have been doing that too, with my EAP. See, the thing is, this is supposed to help relax on a long drive. If your foot needs to hover over the go pedal, that’s not very relaxing!
The constant attention it requires is not really value for money spent on the feature, is it.
Might as well drive the car. If there was an option to have the non traffic aware cruise control, it might help a bit.
_Redshift_
Member
I too have been driving for 4 years on EAP. I had my car veer towards the median 2 times.
First time was when there was a seam in the concrete in the lane I was in (left most) and I was alert and anticipating that the EAP will sense it as a lane marker, just in case. It did, and veered towards the concrete median, and I turned the wheel back in an instance. This has not happened since. (At the same spot)
Second time was not so clear cut. Again, traveling in the left lane through a windy interstate 80 near Truckee in Lake Tahoe. For no reason, the car tried to swerve towards the median, and I corrected immediately.
I agreed, there are some subtle changes in AP/NOA after the FSD beta. First is the speed sign recognition, before I can always set the speed I want, now it always flip back to the sign it recognizes. I have experience once when passing a 18 wheelers and it panicked and veered to the left for no reason, I immediately brake and disengaged (haven't face this before).
The problem is this kind of surprises make certain accident will happen, just 1 in 100 times of inconsistency and if the driver is getting comfortable to trust the software, numbed senses by too much reliance on the system, and naturally slower to respond.
Yes....you would agree, but really the base point is not only did the driver NOT retain control as they should have, but the driver had ample time to correct.
Why would the NTSB be interested in a driver that can't be bothered to actually pay attention to what his vehicle is doing, even when using some limited forms of automated assistance?
The NTSB has long since know that drivers pay attention to things other than the vehicle, with frequently tragic results. Your attempt to excuse poor driver attentiveness doesn't change that.
Why are you responding to me and not the poster who made the statement about "NTSB being interested". ThomasD made that post/statement. Not me.
You guys LOVE me.
Answer on why was actually quite understandable in my post. Try reading....Why are you responding to me and not the poster who made the statement about "NTSB being interested". ThomasD made that post/statement. Not me.
You guys LOVE me.
Nah...love is a bit strong; the phrase you were trying for find you was: childish, self-centered, incapable of actual original thought, and pathetically attention seeking. However, you already know you embody all those qualities. Carry on.
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