I had the full self driving beta on in aggressive mode on the highway going 65-70ish mph. A truck swerved in front of me into the left lane. I am assuming the autopilot thought the median/grass was another lane because it changed into it to avoid the truck and I was not able to stop it in time. There was a wire guard rail on the left that went into a V shape with a metal guard rail on the right and the car ran into the bottom of the V and was hit on both sides and the front. I was slamming on the brakes the whole time but the car wasn’t stopping, although I only had 2-3 seconds before I hit something and i’m not sure how good the brakes are on grass. The car didn’t beep at all, no beeping that I was going out of the lane, no beeping that I was about to hit something. It didn’t try to stop, airbags didn’t go off etc. Usually if i’m close to hitting something whether i’m in autopilot or not the car will brake instantly.
If the wire guard rail wouldn’t have been there my car would have been fine, but the wire really destroyed the car all around it. I didn’t get hurt at all which is good though. No other cars were involved. The city says the guard rail is probably $20k+ to replace.
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Is FSD Beta responsible for total destruction of this 2020 Model S?
- Thread starter 2101Guy
- Start date
TresLA
Member
You can tell from whom the poster is here and from the clickbait headline that this is probably just FUD. Also to help consider: FSDb isn’t used on highways yet.
Its simply a post from another thread. The people will decide the answer. Including those who claimed to have me on "ignore" but always view AND respond to my posts/threads.
Either way...this thread will be hot. Dont hate the poster, hate the game!
TresLA
Member
You aren’t graciously “letting” anyone decide anything. You’re trying to insert fiction and speculation to drive the narrative. Your headline (not the OP) mentions (inserts) FSDb. Your headline (not the OP) doesn’t characterize the accident as “total destruction”. He says it was fine and wants to keep the car. It was considered totaled by insurance because they got squeezed by guardrails and scraped up both sides of the car a lot. They aren’t even really mad at Tesla about the accident. They’re posting because they want to keep free supercharging and asking for some way to not lose it.
I don’t have you on ignore, but I can understand why some do, considering how many alerts I get that you posted something (FUD) here.
TresLA
Member
And for the record, people don’t get to decide facts that negate your headline’s accusation. I’ll save people the trouble and answer your question: no, FSD beta wasn’t responsible because FSD beta wasn’t engaged. Stop adding confusion and doubt by repeatedly twisting stories.
How many times does this need to be posted before people catch on?
The DRIVER is ALWAYS responsible.
The DRIVER is ALWAYS responsible.
Read again...in fact, I'll copy it here from the original posters post in large font for you in case your vision is worse than a Tesla FSD vision system:
"...I had the full self driving beta on.."
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Yes. Tesla should replace the car with a fully loaded Roadster 2.0 and transferable lifetime free supercharging. 
TresLA
Member
You love that I get alerts for this forum no matter the poster?
Of course, you only seem to trust testimony that’s negative towards Tesla. I read what the OP said, but that doesn’t mean they’re right. FSD beta doesn’t exist for highways yet. Everyone with FSD beta _should_ know this, but not everyone with FSD beta does.
Thats not what you originally said. Here, let me help remind you as to what you stated above:
"Your headline (not the OP) mentions (inserts) FSDb."
Then after I helped you re-read the OP's original post where he CLEARLY said that he was using "full self driving beta", THEN you attempted to backtrack.
Here..let me help you a bit more: Are you aware that ANY and ALL forms of Tesla FSD are considered (not by me, by TESLA), to be in "beta"? Whether its city, highway, or running off of the road into guard rails...its BETA.
Your welcome.
Next.
Yet in her previous post she said she was on Autopilot which would make sense she was on the highway. But you knew that but it doesn’t help you as usual FUD headline. Also noted that She opted to steer left into the grass when the car veered to the shoulder. All the stuff you like to skip in order to push your agenda Dan O.
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TresLA
Member
Stop trying so hard. There’s a convenient record of all your posts/comments.
Now let me help you:
You inserted in the headline (which you’re trying to backtrack by originally saying “it’s simply a post from another thread”) the plot twist/narrative that the OP doesn’t connote .
Are you aware that no Tesla FSD exists and the company has never claimed it does yet? You’re thinking of ANY and ALL forms of Tesla _Autopilot_ are in beta. FSD Capability is the package/subscription you can pay for, and FSD beta is a specific product labeled as such, but you knew that. You’re just trolling.
I look forward to your next FUD that’s easy to disprove/dispel.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The accident did happen no matter what the technology is called AP/EAP/FSD/FSD beta...
Tesla Autosteer technology has been known for steering in the wrong direction since the inception of Ap1, Ap2, and now Ap3, so this is not new. That's why it's not a GM Supercruise hands-off and eyes-on feature. It's Tesla's hands-on feature even some want to defeat it by selling some gadgets.
The video showed a truck in front changing lanes from lane 3 to lane 2 on the right, and the Tesla was traveling on lane 1 on the left then hell broke loose as the car veered toward the left into the median.
I have both FSD and FSD beta separately in 2 cars. Before I got the FSD beta, I don't recall such behavior but when I first loaded FSD beta, I immediately experience that behavior on freeways right away even when people keep telling me that FSD beta is for city streets and it should not affect the highway behaviors.
My FSD beta still does as of today while my FSD car doesn't.
This is not unusual because we also have another case cited in the New York Times that the Tesla was doing an Auto Lane Change at 77 MPH from the left lane number 1 and it suddenly slowed down and aborted the Auto Lane Change. It slowed down so much from 77 MPH to 55 MPH and the car behind hit it. It's probably because there's a flashing tow truck parking well within the right shoulder near the highway overpass.
https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/08/16/101991_1_tesla-crash-hp-promo_wg_720p.mp4
Photo: The New York Times
To assign blames, Tesla legally says on the order page that:
"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
Thus, the driver must drive and not give up the car's controls.
In this thread, I think the accident could have been prevented if the driver had hands on the steering wheel.
In the New York Times case, if the driver is familiar with the phantom brakes and controlled the speed to the traffic flow of 77 MPH and not 55 MPH, the accident could have been prevented.
So, yes, the drivers are legally blamed for using a technology they cannot react to timely to gain back the controls.
On the other hand, if these cars had no sophisticated Tesla technology (that reacts to a parking truck on the shoulder and lane changing truck to the adjacent lane but clear of Tesla's lane) and those cars only have simple technology like manual controls or GM Cruise (that are not sophisticated enough to react in the above scenarios like the sophisticated Tesla technology can) then there would not be accidents in those 2 above scenarios.
So, yes, Tesla technology needs to improve so that it should not overreact to those 2 scenarios. Without acknowledgment of the problems and improvements, accidents will continue to happen.
Jmolloy3
Member
Something doesn't make sense. The truck "swerved" into the center lane, not the left lane that the S was driving in. The truck wasn't even fully in the center lane before the S was in the grass, which again, is very odd. The S went fully into the grass because the driver took over and wanted to avoid the guard rail (info not included by OP). I've been driving with EAP on highways for 4 years, and FSD for for ~4 months. Never had anything remotely close to this happen. I've done all sorts of road trips and my 3 only leaves the road in weird exit lane situations.
OP: This is not single stack, it's FSD for city streets and EAP for hwys.
And yes, you still have to rEmAiN ViGiLaNt.
OP: This is not single stack, it's FSD for city streets and EAP for hwys.
And yes, you still have to rEmAiN ViGiLaNt.
NoGasNoBrakes
Active Member
Yeah, I've been driving around in FSD Beta/Autopilot too and I have this issue on the freeway. Definitely something Tesla needs to improve, however, I always keep my foot above the acceleration pedal or always ready to press on it ASAP in case anything like phantom braking happens, since the car can't brake while my foot is on the gas. There's definitely something Tesla could improve there, though I'm sure there's tradeoffs if the car gets too aggressive, but driver attentiveness is definitely also key, especially if you get into a situation where you know the car might get a little jerky.
TresLA
Member
Generally agreed! I have some thoughts/responses to your points, but for now will start with: this is how a proper discussion of Tesla ADAS systems and issues should be presented vs the trolling headline of this thread.The accident did happen no matter what the technology is called AP/EAP/FSD/FSD beta...
Tesla Autosteer technology has been known for steering in the wrong direction since the inception of Ap1, Ap2, and now Ap3, so this is not new. That's why it's not a GM Supercruise hands-off and eyes-on feature. It's Tesla's hands-on feature even some want to defeat it by selling some gadgets.
The video showed a truck in front changing lanes from lane 3 to lane 2 on the right, and the Tesla was traveling on lane 1 on the left then hell broke loose as the car veered toward the left into the median.
I have both FSD and FSD beta separately in 2 cars. Before I got the FSD beta, I don't recall such behavior but when I first loaded FSD beta, I immediately experience that behavior on freeways right away even when people keep telling me that FSD beta is for city streets and it should not affect the highway behaviors.
My FSD beta still does as of today while my FSD car doesn't.
This is not unusual because we also have another case cited in the New York Times that the Tesla was doing an Auto Lane Change at 77 MPH from the left lane number 1 and it suddenly slowed down and aborted the Auto Lane Change. It slowed down so much from 77 MPH to 55 MPH and the car behind hit it. It's probably because there's a flashing tow truck parking well within the right shoulder near the highway overpass.
https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/08/16/101991_1_tesla-crash-hp-promo_wg_720p.mp4
Photo: The New York Times
To assign blames, Tesla legally says on the order page that:
"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
Thus, the driver must drive and not give up the car's controls.
In this thread, I think the accident could have been prevented if the driver had hands on the steering wheel.
In the New York Times case, if the driver is familiar with the phantom brakes and controlled the speed to the traffic flow of 77 MPH and not 55 MPH, the accident could have been prevented.
So, yes, the drivers are legally blamed for using a technology they cannot react to timely to gain back the controls.
On the other hand, if these cars had no sophisticated Tesla technology (that reacts to a parking truck on the shoulder and lane changing truck to the adjacent lane but clear of Tesla's lane) and those cars only have simple technology like manual controls or GM Cruise (that are not sophisticated enough to react in the above scenarios like the sophisticated Tesla technology can) then there would not be accidents in those 2 above scenarios.
So, yes, Tesla technology needs to improve so that it should not overreact to those 2 scenarios. Without acknowledgment of the problems and improvements, accidents will continue to happen.
(Note: if you read the troll’s comment I was replying to, you’ll see I was being somewhat facetious and using their word and capitalization choices. Otherwise, I don’t usually type like a child LOL BRB PWN’d duh okay boomer keke)
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So you are doing this for attention. Damn. All this time I thought you had legitimate concerns about the safety of fsd beta…
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