Is Performance Worth It?

[Knightshade]

I disagree that the cost of operation for a performance model 3 is more. Other than the slight decrease in range I don't see anything else as different.

- If you don't like the wheels you can replace them.

...which costs money.

And if you do like the 20s you lose range, which costs money.

I replaced mine with 19s. In fact you will not have any trouble swapping them with others who have the 19s and want the 20s at no cost since the 20s cost more.

the stock 18/19" Tesla wheels don't fit the P3D+

Neither do most aftermarket options due to the raised lip. So again- more money.

Not to mention the P3D+ brakes will cost more to repair/replace after warranty.

The P3D- avoids these issues- which is why it's such a shame they don't sell em anymore.

 

[Perry]

Lol no. The LR RWD is rated at 310 but gets up to 330. The AWD is rated at 310 and gets about that and the P3D+ is rated for 310 and usually gets more like 285. At least based on most people’s experience I’ve read on here.

Yes this is very true . Depends how you drive. My range for example is only 60 miles.

 

[Perry]

For 10K extra you do get bragging rights, but the chance to really use that performance is very rare.

Rare how?! I use that performance every second and am perpetually disappointed that there is not more.

 

[Perry]

...which costs money.

I just said he could trade 20s for 19s at no cost didn't I.

the stock 18/19" Tesla wheels don't fit the P3D+

I said trade for the 19s which do fit.

Neither do most aftermarket options due to the raised lip. So again- more money.

No longer true. Many now offer that lip machined. My wheels have it.

Not to mention the P3D+ brakes will cost more to repair/replace after warranty.

Don't believe that to be true. They are both 4 piston brembos. They are almost identical minus the red paint.

The P3D- avoids these issues- which is why it's such a shame they don't sell em anymore.

I agree there.

 

[Knightshade]

I just said he could trade 20s for 19s at no cost didn't I.

Yes you did. It's a claim that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I j
I said trade for the 19s which do fit.

OEM Tesla 19s absolutely do not fit the P3D+ brakes due to the lip.

Model 3 19" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

This package is not compatible with Model 3 Performance Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive configured with the Performance Upgrade – Contact your nearest Tesla Service Center for more details

If you meant "someone will trade aftermarket 19s that specifically and specially fit the P3D+, that already came with 20s, for your 20s, for free" I'm not sure how that makes any sense for anyone involved.

No longer true. Many now offer that lip machined. My wheels have it.

Absolutely true. "many" fit the P+, all of them fit the non-P+. Smaller selection generally equals higher prices (and fewer choices of course)

I
Don't believe that to be true. They are both 4 piston brembos. They are almost identical minus the red paint.

So you think larger brakes/calipers cost the same as smaller brakes, minus cost of paint?

 

[Perry]

Yes you did. It's a claim that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I said it because I saw others post with people commenting that they have done just this.

If you meant "someone will trade aftermarket 19s that specifically and specially fit the P3D+, that already came with 20s, for your 20s, for free" I'm not sure how that makes any sense for anyone involved.

No I never said that. I have read other posters stating that they swapped their 20"s for stock 19"s and also talked to a guy at a Model 3 meetup, when MPP came here to California to show off their new performance brake rotors, who showed me his car and did the same thing. In any case even if that is not possible without machining there are plenty of wheel option choices to pick from.

Smaller selection generally equals higher prices (and fewer choices of course)

I have not seen any price differences in ones with machined lip VS not. A lot of wheel makers are doing it now that they know the P3 needs it. It is not a problem finding wheels with that option. It was at the beginning when they where not aware of it.

So you think larger brakes/calipers cost the same as smaller brakes, minus cost of paint?

Yes, I don't think there is a significant price difference between the AWD calipers and the P calipers. Same brand and same piston count. They are not that much different if you ever looked at them closely other than the color.

But even if there was a price difference. Have you ever had calipers go bad and had to replace them? I've owned many cars and drive them hard. I have never had a brake caliper go bad. Pads, warped rotors, cracked rotors, blown master cylinder, ABS computer, brake lines, yes. Caliper never.

 

[Glamisduner]

I said it because I saw others post with people commenting that they have done just this.

No I never said that. I have read other posters stating that they swapped their 20"s for stock 19"s and also talked to a guy at a Model 3 meetup, when MPP came here to California to show off their new performance brake rotors, who showed me his car and did the same thing. In any case even if that is not possible without machining there are plenty of wheel option choices to pick from.

I have not seen any price differences in ones with machined lip VS not. A lot of wheel makers are doing it now that they know the P3 needs it. It is not a problem finding wheels with that option. It was at the beginning when they where not aware of it.

Yes, I don't think there is a significant price difference between the AWD calipers and the P calipers. Same brand and same piston count. They are not that much different if you ever looked at them closely other than the color.

But even if there was a price difference. Have you ever had calipers go bad and had to replace them? I've owned many cars and drive them hard. I have never had a brake caliper go bad. Pads, warped rotors, cracked rotors, blown master cylinder, ABS computer, brake lines, yes. Caliper never.

I have seen Pistons in calipers become frozen before... The larger caliper gives you a larger rotor...

 

[MXWing]

I wonder if Tesla will execute on Order 66 and offer a one time shot to bring AWD up to P speeds.

One time cost of 8000, financing offered.

They gotta come up with an extra 200 mil in Q2.

 

[darnelli]

It's a very personal decision. To me the size of tires it fits is one of the most important factors due to price and availability of tires. Then there is range. I could easily get by with a lot less range for my typical usage but it sure is nice to be able to go the extra miles without thinking about a Supercharger or if you'll make it or need to reduce the heater to make it. More range = more flexibility and more peace of mind. Also longer battery life because you won't feel the need to charge it 100% all the time.

We have a Long Range and a Stealth Performance with 18" Aeros. Both are stellar cars and it would be hard to choose which one I like more. The LR is nice for it's bit of extra range and it certainly has more than enough power to be fantastic to drive in traffic without worry if it's fast enough. It is more than fast enough. The P3D is a LOT faster, almost surreal. It's fun just for how ludicrous it is but mostly it's nice for it's AWD and acceleration on lower traction surfaces. I could live with 19" wheels but I prefer the 18" and absolutely would not go with the 20".

If you have money to burn, get the P3D (and you might want to buy some wheels in a more practical size). If you don't have money to burn, I would go for the LR or AWD depending upon if the extra acceleration, especially on lower traction surfaces, is worth it to you and whether you would miss the extra range of the LR.

You know your financial situation and needs/likes better than anyone and you really can't go wrong with any of them (except perhaps that pesky wheel thing with the 20" rims).

Quick question

what's your range performance on your stealth P3D with 18's?

 

[Perry]

Quick question

what's your range performance on your stealth P3D with 18's?

As stated above with screenshot. My battery range is 60 miles on stock 18's.

 

[mswlogo]

As stated above with screenshot. My battery range is 60 miles on stock 18's.

Is that with or without Aero covers on?

 

[Knightshade]

I said it because I saw others post with people commenting that they have done just this.

Except that's physically impossible on a P3D+

If you've got links to others claiming they did it I'm sure we'd love to see those.

I
No I never said that. I have read other posters stating that they swapped their 20"s for stock 19"s

Yes, you did say that. Here's you saying it

- If you don't like the wheels you can replace them. I replaced mine with 19s. In fact you will not have any trouble swapping them with others who have the 19s and want the 20s at no cost since the 20s cost more

In any case even if that is not possible without machining there are plenty of wheel option choices to pick from.

I have not seen any price differences in ones with machined lip VS not.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point.

The fact there's some wheels that can fit either car doesn't change the fact there's many more wheels that don't fit the P3D+

Therefore there's fewer choices for P3D+ owners.

Less supply means higher cost in general.


That doesn't mean the same wheel that fits either cost more than the same wheel that fits just the regular hub.

It means a P3D+ owner has, say, 25 choices vs the 100 (both numbers are certainly larger, but the P3D+ options are a smaller subset is the point) that a non-P3D+ owner has, and thus is denied picking from less expensive wheels for which a P3D+ option doesn't even exist (or would require custom machining to make fit- which isn't free)

Yes, I don't think there is a significant price difference between the AWD calipers and the P calipers. Same brand and same piston count. They are not that much different if you ever looked at them closely other than the color.

But even if there was a price difference. Have you ever had calipers go bad and had to replace them? I've owned many cars and drive them hard. I have never had a brake caliper go bad. Pads, warped rotors, cracked rotors, blown master cylinder, ABS computer, brake lines, yes. Caliper never.

The calipers aren't the only difference though.

They don't use the same pads either (far as I can tell nobody even sells after market pads for the P3D+ right now, but they do for the regular brakes)....

They also don't use the same front rotors. Seems unlikely THOSE will be the same price if/when you need to replace em.[/QUOTE]

 

[SammichLover]

I wonder if Tesla will execute on Order 66 and offer a one time shot to bring AWD up to P speeds.

One time cost of 8000, financing offered.

They gotta come up with an extra 200 mil in Q2.

Throw in the software to toggle on 0.3g regen and the more aggressive drive train cooling (the key parts of Track Mode) and I'm there in a heartbeat.

I don't think I'd bother without the drivetrain cooling and would seriously hesitate to w/o the higher regen.

 

[mswlogo]

I wonder if Tesla will execute on Order 66 and offer a one time shot to bring AWD up to P speeds.

One time cost of 8000, financing offered.

They gotta come up with an extra 200 mil in Q2.

The boost alone is not worth $8000.00

FUSC, Boost and Wheels/Brakes for $15k (Initial Offer)
FSUC and Boost for $10k (Initial Stealth Offer)
Boost and Wheels/Brakes for $10k ($5k Credit or Current Pricing)
Boost $5k (Stealth - $5k Credit and Currently not available)

Any way you slice it Tesla now values it at around $5k

That said, they might offer it if they were strapped for cash and if offered at $5k I suspect they would sell a boat load of the upgrades.
But they would/could cannibalize Performance sales now and forever if they do because many buyers will assume an upgrade will be offered later.

Maybe what they should do is offer it for $5k at purchase time and $7k later like they do AutoPilot.

 

[StealthP3D]

Quick question

what's your range performance on your stealth P3D with 18's?

It appears to average about 10% less than the RWD LR in the same conditions. But the pedal on the right side of the footwell is so fun to push, it's hard to get a fair comparison! If you want to get the rated range of 310, and you're not using cabin heat, you need to go about 60 mph.

 

[mswlogo]

It appears to average about 10% less than the RWD LR in the same conditions. But the pedal on the right side of the footwell is so fun to push, it's hard to get a fair comparison! If you want to get the rated range of 310, and you're not using cabin heat, you need to go about 60 mph.

Without using heat I expect to get 220 wh/mi doing 65 mph in Chill Mode easily on the Performance with Aero's.
I got 230 wh/mi for a 1000 miles (mostly highway) in October (little bit of heat). And that included some showing friends/fun factor/new toy.

Not sure what AC brings to the table yet.

For fun, I've had the heat off since Friday. I forgot to reset my "Trip B" odometer. But my commute (which is worst case because it's very short) is crazy good. Was like 300+ with heat on, now with Heat Off the Energy Chart 210 avg for the last 15 miles (that's From, To, From work). And it was still limited Regen (but it's not really limited, is it )

You can see the solid rated line is well above my 15 mile average. This is slow driving, but lots of turns and stops. But with heat off, the turns and stops are free. Where with heat on, they are costly.

 

[StealthP3D]

Without using heat I expect to get 220 wh/mi doing 65 mph in Chill Mode easily on the Performance with Aero's.
I got 230 wh/mi for a 1000 miles (mostly highway) in October (little bit of heat). And that included some showing friends/fun factor/new toy.

Not sure what AC brings to the table yet.

For fun, I've had the heat off since Friday. I forgot to reset my "Trip B" odometer. But my commute (which is worst case because it's very short) is crazy good. Was like 300+ with heat on, now with Heat Off the Energy Chart 210 avg for the last 15 miles (that's From, To, From work). And it was still limited Regen (but it's not really limited, is it )

You can see the solid rated line is well above my 15 mile average. This is slow driving, but lots of turns and stops. But with heat off, the turns and stops are free. Where with heat on, they are costly.

Thinking about it more, the numbers I provided probably include a little cabin heat. We didn't take delivery of the P3D until Spetember 30 and the weather had already turned cool/wet. So, yeah, with no heat you could probably get the rated range going 65-68 mph as long as there were no inefficiencies creeping in. I wonder how much the stereo uses? I know we often have it on mid-high volume level.

Still, in cool to cold weather the Long Range is noticeably more efficient, even just using casual observatiion the difference is noticeable. As much as I like the insane performance of the P3D, I really have a sweet spot in my heart for my wife's Long Range due to it's extra efficiency. It's definitely the better road trip car. And the P3D is more fun to drive on a daily basis from home.

 

[tomas]

I wonder if Tesla will execute on Order 66 and offer a one time shot to bring AWD up to P speeds.

One time cost of 8000, financing offered.

They gotta come up with an extra 200 mil in Q2.

My prediction is $5000 if it happens.

 

[SammichLover]

Thinking about it more, the numbers I provided probably include a little cabin heat. We didn't take delivery of the P3D until Spetember 30 and the weather had already turned cool/wet. So, yeah, with no heat you could probably get the rated range going 65-68 mph as long as there were no inefficiencies creeping in. I wonder how much the stereo uses? I know we often have it on mid-high volume level.

Still, in cool to cold weather the Long Range is noticeably more efficient, even just using casual observatiion the difference is noticeable. As much as I like the insane performance of the P3D, I really have a sweet spot in my heart for my wife's Long Range due to it's extra efficiency. It's definitely the better road trip car. And the P3D is more fun to drive on a daily basis from home.

It isn't just cabin heat that does it, sub-20C ambient temps affects the battery pack. I see it in my D, too, even with cabin HVAC disabled via switching to manual mode.

At a certain point it is suspected that the Model 3 is using forced motor inefficiency to provide heat for the battery, but even before that Li-ion batteries just aren't as effective when they are cooler.

 

[SammichLover]

My prediction is $5000 if it happens.

They like pricing things at $5000 but this hypothetical could get a $6000 or more touch to keep from undermining the Performance pricing.

P.S. I still don't think I'd touch it at $5000 without being able to toggle on the pro-active cooling that is included in Track Mode.