Israel/Hamas conflict

[replicant]

My understanding is that 40+ babies and young children were murdered by Hamas militants at Kfar Aza, and some beheaded. The beheadings are absolutely gruesome, but the murders are really the tragedy.

Understanding based on the sources that no one could verify so far?

IDF says it won't back up its claim that Hamas decapitated babies in Israel because it is 'disrespectful for the dead'

An IDF spokesperson told Insider that it won't investigate its claim that Hamas decapitated babies.

www.businessinsider.com

Why would they not try to document a war crime? We won't know if it's one, two or forty. Or zero. The IDF spokeperson stated:

I don't have an evidence and I'm not looking for one.

Gotta be careful. As they saying goes, the first casualty of War is Truth.
Without more information, I'll classify that as a rumor.

 

[SmokyPeat]

Understanding based on the sources that no one could verify so far?

IDF says it won't back up its claim that Hamas decapitated babies in Israel because it is 'disrespectful for the dead'

An IDF spokesperson told Insider that it won't investigate its claim that Hamas decapitated babies.

www.businessinsider.com

Why would they not try to document a war crime? We won't know if it's one, two or forty. Or zero. The IDF spokeperson stated:


Gotta be careful. As they saying goes, the first casualty of War is Truth.
Without more information, I'll classify that as a rumor.

Doesn't make much difference to me if the babies heads were cut off with knives, blown off with high power rifles, or if they were brutally murdered in some other manner. It was an act of barbarism, and the Palestinians of Gaza will unfortunately pay a very high price.

Israel kibbutz the scene of a Hamas "massacre," first responders say: "The depravity of it is haunting"

"The depravity of it is haunting," an Israeli military official told CBS News of the scene in Kfar Aza, where an emergency responder says even babies were beheaded.

www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[madodel]

Doesn't make much difference to me if the babies heads were cut off with knives, blown off with high power rifles, or if they were brutally murdered in some other manner. It was an act of barbarism, and the Palestinians of Gaza will unfortunately pay a very high price.

Israel kibbutz the scene of a Hamas "massacre," first responders say: "The depravity of it is haunting"

"The depravity of it is haunting," an Israeli military official told CBS News of the scene in Kfar Aza, where an emergency responder says even babies were beheaded.

www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Yep. Mass murder is mass murder whether you line folks up along a trench or you just shoot them where you find them. Both sides have brutalized one another for decades. Though this is brutality on a scale not seen outside of Syria with the lunatic ISIS. Hopefully the surrounding countries stay out of it as this will end badly for everyone.

 

[replicant]

Doesn't make much difference to me if the babies heads were cut off with knives, blown off with high power rifles, or if they were brutally murdered in some other manner. It was an act of barbarism, and the Palestinians of Gaza will unfortunately pay a very high price.

So we don't know how many babies were killed and how. And the people who can tell us what happened won't? Mmh.

 

[Badger54]

https://x.com/avikaner/status/1712074575909969981?s=46

https://x.com/israel/status/1711747809500709374?s=46

Hamas = ISIS.

 

[DayTrippin]

My understanding is that 40+ babies and young children were murdered by Hamas militants at Kfar Aza, and some beheaded. The beheadings are absolutely gruesome, but the murders are really the tragedy.

Well, CNN confirms it, so it must be true./s Confirmed by sources in the Israeli government.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712138774384185602

 

[aubreymcfato]

Well, CNN confirms it, so it must be true./s Confirmed by sources in the Israeli government.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712138774384185602

Personally, I won't trust the IDF. As I wouldn't trust Hamas sources.
At the moment, it's not verified.

Btw, these are the Palestinan children killed in these years:

There were a gruesome incident where some settlers burned a house and an infant died. Settlers were chanting, and still defend the culprit. This was like a month ago. Just to give perspective.

 

[Badger54]

Personally, I won't trust the IDF. As I wouldn't trust Hamas sources.
At the moment, it's not verified.

Btw, these are the Palestinan children killed in these years:
View attachment 981462
There were a gruesome incident where some settlers burned a house and an infant died. Settlers were chanting, and still defend the culprit. This was like a month ago. Just to give perspective.

Your perspective stinks pal.

It’s been verified by various sources but you just keep denying it and making excuses for radical fundamentalism masquerading as freedom fighters.

This isn’t about whatism’s and oooo they’ve done that before so this is justified.

Hamas are ISIS 2.0 and if you can’t see that then then I pity you

 

[indysurfer]

Your perspective stinks pal.

It’s been verified by various sources but you just keep denying it and making excuses for radical fundamentalism masquerading as freedom fighters.

This isn’t about whatism’s and oooo they’ve done that before so this is justified.

Hamas are ISIS 2.0 and if you can’t see that then then I pity you

It's like equating the thousands of French and German citizens killed in Allied bombing in WWII to the millions PURPOSEFULLY killed in Nazi death camps.

Intent matters. That is why we have laws of war and try people for war crimes.

If Hamas' actions this week are not considered war crimes, then what is????

Hamas are cowards that target civilians and then run home to hide behind their civilians and hope to get bailed out by Europe or the UN to constrain Israel's response.

 

[aubreymcfato]

Your perspective stinks pal.

It’s been verified by various sources but you just keep denying it and making excuses for radical fundamentalism masquerading as freedom fighters.

This isn’t about whatism’s and oooo they’ve done that before so this is justified.

Hamas are ISIS 2.0 and if you can’t see that then then I pity you

I don't like Hamas more than you do, and I won't justify its actions.
I won't, also, justify the "most moral army in the world" when it kills children.
I know, I know that Palestinian children don't count...
Also, I'm not your pal.

 

[iPlug]

We have videos of Hamas hunting and executing civilians and the uncontestable outcome of hundreds of civilians dead at the music festival and elsewhere where they were Hamas' primary targets. None of that was about targeting military with collateral civilian losses. This is a level of disgusting with no moral equivalence between the two sides.

Acceptable to call out the bad actions of both sides, but let's not pretend it's some similar level of evil.

 

[Badger54]

I don't like Hamas more than you do, and I won't justify its actions.
I won't, also, justify the "most moral army in the world" when it kills children.
I know, I know that Palestinian children don't count...
Also, I'm not your pal.

They do count. Every child and innocent counts.
Hamas want collateral damage. Good for the PR.
There should be a concerted effort to remove children from Gaza before the expected ground offensive.

But people saying these slayings, because that’s what they are, are justified because of past actions are way way way off the mark.

We are seeing brutality on a different scale.

Zero rules of engagement. Anyone’s target for Hamas.
Fighters showing no mercy and wanting to become martyrs whilst there ‘Leaders’ live in luxury in Qatar nice and safe .

My heart goes out to those caught up in this that want no part in it, but the ones that do? I hope they get annihilated and their rotting corpses left to be eaten by jackals.

 

[indysurfer]

I don't like Hamas more than you do, and I won't justify its actions.
I won't, also, justify the "most moral army in the world" when it kills children.
I know, I know that Palestinian children don't count...
Also, I'm not your pal.

You act as if Israel is PURPOSEFULLY killing children like we just saw Hamas do with all the beheaded babies.

Can you not at least acknowledge that Israel is put in an impossible position when Hamas commits war crimes by hiding behind children and putting rocket launchers in densely populated areas?

All the collateral damage and tragic loss of life is on Hamas for starting unwinnable wars and using hospitals and schools to attack Israel.

It is a war crime to use civilians as shields - FULL STOP.

The IDF is far from perfect, but they are light-years more moral and humane compared to the animals they are fighting in Hamas.

 

[ggr]

Mod: reminder to keep all conversation civil and non-political. If we can't do that, we can lock the thread. --ggr

 

[iPlug]

Mod: reminder to keep all conversation civil and non-political. If we can't do that, we can lock the thread. --ggr

Clarification on political, please. The thread topic itself is very political.

 

[Tam]

Clarification on political, please. The thread topic itself is very political.

In addition to being "political," it's also "off topic." This thread should be moved to "politically off-topic" subforum.

 

[wdolson]

I saw the pictures of Gaza that are coming out. Parts of it are looking like Bakhmut.

Back in 2001/2002 there were stories coming out of Al Qaeda that the intent of the 9/11 attacks was to spur the US into over reaction so it would commit a lot of forces to the Middle East where they could be drawn into a never ending war, which is what happened in Afghanistan. It was also happening in Iraq, but the US pulled out earlier.

The intent of this attack on Israel might be to spur Israel into an over reaction and ultimately turn world public opinion against them for how they brutally take apart Gaza. The IDF has demonstrated in the past that they hit the enemy back harder whenever they hit Israel. So if Hamas does something that gets Israel into what could be called a genocidal mood and they raze Gaza completely, then Hamas thinks they can win in the court of public opinion in the long run.

Israel needs to be careful here that they don't look like the monster who beats the dog to a pulp for a dog bite. As heinous as the attack by Hamas was a few days ago, it did some severe local damage to people and property, but it was very localized. In response Israel appears to be leveling an area the size of Detroit with 4 million people living there.

I'm not defending Hamas. What they did was awful and I completely condemn them for it. But it's beginning to look like Israel's reaction is going to be much bigger.

 

[madodel]

I saw the pictures of Gaza that are coming out. Parts of it are looking like Bakhmut.

Back in 2001/2002 there were stories coming out of Al Qaeda that the intent of the 9/11 attacks was to spur the US into over reaction so it would commit a lot of forces to the Middle East where they could be drawn into a never ending war, which is what happened in Afghanistan. It was also happening in Iraq, but the US pulled out earlier.

The intent of this attack on Israel might be to spur Israel into an over reaction and ultimately turn world public opinion against them for how they brutally take apart Gaza. The IDF has demonstrated in the past that they hit the enemy back harder whenever they hit Israel. So if Hamas does something that gets Israel into what could be called a genocidal mood and they raze Gaza completely, then Hamas thinks they can win in the court of public opinion in the long run.

Israel needs to be careful here that they don't look like the monster who beats the dog to a pulp for a dog bite. As heinous as the attack by Hamas was a few days ago, it did some severe local damage to people and property, but it was very localized. In response Israel appears to be leveling an area the size of Detroit with 4 million people living there.

I'm not defending Hamas. What they did was awful and I completely condemn them for it. But it's beginning to look like Israel's reaction is going to be much bigger.

The problem with all these extremist murderers is that they generally can't be isolated out of the general civilian population to be punished as befits murderers. .Lots more will die on both sides to keep the cycle of revenge going. And there is no way to stop it now. And Netanyahu needs this war as much as the terrorists do to stay in power and keep himself out of prison.

 

[madodel]

Hints of 9/11. Warnings ignored.
Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

 

[SmokyPeat]

If Hamas wanted to win over global public opinion, then beheading babies and children, torturing, raping, and murdering civilians probably wasn't the wisest approach. I think it was more about Islamic jihad- a concept that most western armchair analysts can't really wrap their heads around. In any case, they are about to feel the full might of the IDF.