Jaguar I-Pace

[anticitizen13.7]

Even if you believe Elon’s hyperbole, I doubt he was considering storage compartments in what makes a great car.

Twenty years ago you needed storage compartments for maps, CDs, and change for the toll booth. Not now.

And today, people still need storage compartments, but for mobile phones, charging accessories, and tablets/eReaders. Model 3 has a phone dock. Many other cars have similar areas to place a phone while charging and connected to the infotainment system.

Anyone who has transported their kids over long distances knows that storage compartments are highly valuable. Having backseat pockets to stow iPads when not in use means that they aren't loose in the cabin or going to be accidentally sat upon or stepped on. It's good to have basic supplies like wet wipes and a first aid kit in the cabin, because spills of different sorts happen. Cupholders and bottle holders are very convenient on road trips.

Storage compartments may seem like a minor detail, but minor details matter. This is not too much different than an iPhone. They way a button clicks seems like a minor detail, but Steve Jobs was notorious for obsessing over the tactile feel of device controls.

 

[MXWing]

@MXWing and if the Model X had stow and go seating you'd have your perfect car (Well bar the doors, which a sliding set up like the Caravan delivers for a fraction of the cost if you don't want the faux vanity of trying to claim it's an SUV not a minivan.).

There is no "perfect car", all have downsides. The objective (as the numerically obsessed in this thread like to point out), and the subjective. The latter you can't capture in a spreadsheet.

YES Stow and go seating.. and we also need an elevating roof rail system. Rails that lift out of the way when the FWD opens up.

iPace works if you have extra vehicle(s) to make up for deficiencies in
*Passenger transport
*Towing
*Long range travel
*Storage
**Autonomy (if you care)

Main illustration is the Model X versatility is magnitudes greater than an iPace and Jaguar is only hurting themselves trying to compare them. Unless they count on their customers not being able to critically evaluate a complex matrix of use cases and opportunity costs.

Comparisons look even worse when you throw an S or a 3 into the mix due to their much lower price points.

 

[Mr X]

Looks pretty cool. Especially the innovative grill

And today, people still need storage compartments, but for mobile phones, charging accessories, and tablets/eReaders. Model 3 has a phone dock. Many other cars have similar areas to place a phone while charging and connected to the infotainment system.

Anyone who has transported their kids over long distances knows that storage compartments are highly valuable. Having backseat pockets to stow iPads when not in use means that they aren't loose in the cabin or going to be accidentally sat upon or stepped on. It's good to have basic supplies like wet wipes and a first aid kit in the cabin, because spills of different sorts happen. Cupholders and bottle holders are very convenient on road trips.

Storage compartments may seem like a minor detail, but minor details matter. This is not too much different than an iPhone. They way a button clicks seems like a minor detail, but Steve Jobs was notorious for obsessing over the tactile feel of device controls.

How are you going to go on a road trip in the I-Pace

 

[smac]

@MXWing You'll get zero arguments from me regarding the X being a more practical car than an I-Pace.

Like you I have own a "beater" minivan ( we call them Multi Purpose Vehicles here in Europe) and honestly I do not see why most would buy a 3 row SUV over one. I found it far more practical more of the time.A lot of it is driven by fashion/trend. (Actually the exception to that rule would be the VW Transporter, which has some how managed to transcend that desirability threshold the Sedona / Voyager / Caravan can't.)

For me, and again it's subjective, I prefer the look of the I-Pace. I do have other cars, I've owned a Model S (which apart from fit and finish / warranty issues was a good car), but now want a change.

So what choices? The 3 doesn't cut it due to sedan format (and significant delays), the X is too big, the Y is vaporware, the S really needs an interior refresh and Tesla in general need to sort their service centre capacity out.

I drive < 15k miles per year, I do maybe 2 trips per year over 250 miles in a single day, and I fly for vacations (all very much average Joe according to national statistics).

I'd prefer not to drive > 50 miles for service / warranty, and if I do need it a multi week wait is unacceptable. I am fortunate to have enough money to be able to afford a nice car.


Soooo I guess the real question is can Jaguar find 20k people like me to sell the I-Pace to? I think in Europe it's likely. In the US maybe not so much.

I hope that's added some subjective rather than objective color.

 

[Merrill]

I like the looks of the ipace, but as I said before where do you charge on a road trip. Maybe in the future there will be better options but with out the supercharger infrastructure it will be difficult. As it is most people do not want a bev because they are worried about how far they can go and where to charge. I know many people that refuse to do the research about all electric cars and even with Tesla would not purchase because the all electric freaks them out. Lots of these people would and are buying hybrids because they feel more comfortable.

 

[daktari]

@MXWing, we are 5 in the family and have one car for driving the kids and weekend trips. Cars are so expensive here, we have as few as possible.

I had 2 different french MPVs the last 6 years, both 7 seaters. Really never used those seats. Liked the boot space though.

I would not compare the I-pace to the X or another 5m 7-seater van. It is 40cm shorter! Like comparing an A3 to a Q5.
What I like though is similar interior space to our S in a bit more compact package. Gonna loose some a bit of boot space though, will see how that works out.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Looks pretty cool. Especially the innovative grill

How are you going to go on a road trip in the I-Pace

Right now, that's obviously not easy, but my response about storage spaces was directed at TexasEV's comment that storage spaces didn't factor into how great a car is. My only point there was that storage spaces do matter.

The I-Pace would work well for a multi-car household that already has 1 or more long range cars.

Not everyone likes the styling or Scandinavian minimalist interior of a Tesla. For people who want an EV that is much nicer than a Leaf or a Bolt, but aren't on board with Tesla's offerings, the I-Pace is a good alternative.

 

[daktari]

The I-pace is big enough to be a family do-it-all car. Charging in Europe is not a problem.
A Tesla will be more convenient on trips requiring multiple charging stops, but personally I prefer a plane then.

 

[MXWing]

When considering an iPace be absolutely sure you will never need it for the follow two scenarios.

It's exclusive to the X for BEV SUVs.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

It’s my observation that almost nobody buys a “cute-ute” (compact crossover like a CR-V or Forester) to tow things.

The I-Pace is a cute-ute.

 

[buttershrimp]

I wonder if there is a cheaper way to do a Falcon Wing door. Would making it lighter or eliminating glass make it more reliable for mass production on a Y? I know everyone is doubting Falcon wings on a Y, but it is such a fantastic thing on the X.

 

[MXWing]

The I-pace is big enough to be a family do-it-all car. Charging in Europe is not a problem.
A Tesla will be more convenient on trips requiring multiple charging stops, but personally I prefer a plane then.

True, but you'd need to factor in transit and clearance time at each airport. And what if you needed a vehicle at your destination? Then there is also transportation logistics to and from the airport. More people flying means a higher multiple on tickets.
No free lunch anywhere.

I wonder if there is a cheaper way to do a Falcon Wing door. Would making it lighter or eliminating glass make it more reliable for mass production on a Y? I know everyone is doubting Falcon wings on a Y, but it is such a fantastic thing on the X.

FWD would also eliminate any option for roof rails. Can't put skis and snowboards on top of the car. With the X, you can fold down seats.

 

[buttershrimp]

FWD would also eliminate any option for roof rails. Can't put skis and snowboards on top of the car. With the X, you can fold down seats.

To be honest, I'm shocked that pocket doors have never been successfully tried on a car. Probably a good reason for it, heck, why don't more cars have a miniature minivan door?

 

[MXWing]

Would this actually happen? I don't know if it would or not so serious question.

 

[hiroshiy]

Official measurements: 4680mm(l) x 1560mm(h) x 1890mm(w)

Thanks, how did you get this number? If 1890mm without mirrors then it's still wide for Japanese market (won't fit in most automated parkings) but may be acceptable for European market.

Indeed, seems to be overlooked by many. I’ve always thought it’s the width that makes large, wrt parking in garages and on narrow roads, and not the length. But given the popularity of other small cars that are actually very wide, like the RR Evoque here in the UK people will adapt. It will not fit in my garage where I have the narrower Model S.

Agree.

 

[Saghost]

Would this actually happen? I don't know if it would or not so serious question.

There's a clear compression seal around the top of the Froot.

They wouldn't have done that if it didn't mate with something, so I'm pretty sure the Froot isn't open to the air channel; if we could see the bonnet I'm pretty sure it has a full tunnel built in to it, with the bottom seating on that seal to deliver a waterproof Froot.

 

[T34ME]

Looks pretty sharp. Curious too see how it will price out in the US market with those options.

At least it has proper seat stitching...

I-Pace = 0.29 Cd. That sucks! Model 3 = 0.23 Cd. I-Pace is not a very efficient BEV! The I-Pace is a warmed over ICE exterior design. No creativity on the part of Jaguar. What is the purpose of that YUGE grill? Really Jaguar, is this the best you can do?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Nice chart. May I ask why you didn't choose to compare vehicle automation

Because the i-Pace doesn't have proper autopilot. I also didn't add things like HUD and surround view to the i-Pace. Or 6-7 seats to the Teslas. The idea was to compare them at as close to an apples to apples comparison as possible. Some people will value HUD more than autopilot, some will value autopilot more than HUD. Some will need 7 seats. Depending on personal preferences, people will go for Tesla or Jaguar, or something entirely different. But where the customer groups for the i-Pace and the Teslas overlap is where the cars are most similar.

I wanted to point the towing "capabilities" however.

Even if the iPace has a tow hitch and a 750KG capacity, the entire towing endeavor is questionable.

How far can you take a trailer, and does one really take a trailer just 160KM and then turn around?

Can you imagine dragging a 750KG load from San Francisco to New York in an iPace versus doing it in a Model X?

I think the towing on the i-Pace is quite worthwhile. At least in Norway. Should work great for going to the dump with some garden waste, going to Ikea, etc. This is probably 80% of the towing needs in Norway.

But for some people 750 kg will obviously be insufficient, and in that case, the only electric option is the Model X.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Would this actually happen? I don't know if it would or not so serious question.

For Norway, I'm more worried about the prospects of parking at the airport in winter, and then come back only to find a solid block of ice filling the indentation of the hood...

 

[voyager]

Thanks, how did you get this number? If 1890mm without mirrors then it's still wide for Japanese market (won't fit in most automated parkings) but may be acceptable for European market.
Agree.

Source measurements: AutoExpress.
Cars have become way too wide anyway. Has a lot to do with the eye of the beholder (prospective buyer): wider cars have more road presence, and you can't have a car that is smaller (sleeker) than the previous model. For instance, the Porsche 911 has grown almost 12 inches wider than the original from the early 60's. Cars needn't be that wide for road holding purposes, since active suspension can take car of that.