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Jaguar I-Pace

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I put together the attached M3 LR/i-Pace/MX75D comparo based on publicly available specifications. The estimated US price for the i-Pace is based on the ratio of i-Pace to X75D pricing in the UK. Hopefully Jaguar will announce US pricing at the Geneva show next week. Feedback welcome.
The only thing I'd question is the EPA it probably needs highlighting as an estimate.

If the X75 has an NEDC of 259 miles and the I-PACE a WLTP of 298 miles, even if we say WLTP is as unrealistic as NEDC (which it isn't), then 40 miles of NEDC has got to be worth more than 3 miles of EPA. (Or am I missing something ?)
 
Isn't this car wide, at 2011mm (79.2inches)? I know it is out of question in Japan, but how about Europe?
Indeed, seems to be overlooked by many. I’ve always thought it’s the width that makes large, wrt parking in garages and on narrow roads, and not the length. But given the popularity of other small cars that are actually very wide, like the RR Evoque here in the UK people will adapt. It will not fit in my garage where I have the narrower Model S.
 
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Because the I-Pace is being built by Magna-Steyr in Austria we can expect pretty high build quality and pretty much on-time delivery, assuming LG and other suppliers do their part. I have had several Magna-Steyr built cars all of which had better build quality than the brands were reputed to have at the time. FWIW the new BMW Z-5/Toyota Supra will be built there as well as MB G-class and others.
Magna Steyr to build cars for Mercedes, BMW, Toyota and Jaguar Land Rover
 
Not sure if it’s mentioned anywhere in the the thread, but note that the IPace uses PMAC permanent magnet motors, unlike the Tesla induction ones. These are supposed to be more expensive,but have the advantage of being lighter and more compact. Not sure if the PEM in the first EV400 model is the equivalent of those in Tesla P cars, or if they will offered better performing PEM’s later.
 
Model 3 uses permanent magnets. First Tesla to do so.

Not sure if it’s mentioned anywhere in the the thread, but note that the IPace uses PMAC permanent magnet motors, unlike the Tesla induction ones. These are supposed to be more expensive,but have the advantage of being lighter and more compact. Not sure if the PEM in the first EV400 model is the equivalent of those in Tesla P cars, or if they will offered better performing PEM’s later.
 
I tried to equip the i-Pace with all the equipment Tesla has as standard, to see how Jaguar and Tesla compare.

And this is how I view the comparison with Tesla, from my Norwegian perspective:

USModelX.png



USModelS.png
 
Interesting. Here in the U.S. the i3 has 32A/7 kW charging - which as I understand it actually comes from two separate modules.

I hadn't realized the iPace charger was so poorly suited to Europe. Here in the U.S. it's at the high end of typical of everything other than Tesla.

I don't understand why they wouldn't have good European charging solutions since they seem to be launching there first?
Yep, the i3 does have two separate charger rated at 3.2 kw each. My understanding is that in Europe, the second charger was optional.
 
I tried to equip the i-Pace with all the equipment Tesla has as standard, to see how Jaguar and Tesla compare.

And this is how I view the comparison with Tesla, from my Norwegian perspective:

View attachment 284071


View attachment 284070

Great Work Yggd! Very informative! Cant wait to see what the final EPA range is as I believe it will be closer to the Model X 75D. Not that you have not done enough work so far, I would love to see vs the Model 3. I think people will be surprised at how close these vehicles are in terms of size and passenger space as the Model 3 is very close to the Model S but more head room.

I dont want to bag on the IPace to much as I really like it and I think they will sell every one they can make with demand to spare. Hopefully that will be enough to encourage them to have their next gen car be more competitive on pricing because its pretty good otherwise. The charging network is also lacking but should be more available by 2020 when their Gen 2 version of the IPace and other cars could potentially come out.

I think this car will be more painful for Daimler and BMW then Tesla as it relates to competition. Certainly in the UK and places like Norway where EVs rule.
 
I noticed that you didn't respond to the second part of my post, about the inability to find a single Electrify America charger live anywhere in the US. I was previously unaware about EA putting their CA work on hold. But what about their nationwide charging network in the other 49 states? Their first 30-month investment period will be half over at the end of this month. If you expect them to meet their June 30, 2019 rollout goal, wouldn't you expect there to be at least one charger live at the end of 14 months?
EA did give a bunch of money to EVgo to upgrade some existing 25 kW chargers to 50 kW and perhaps install a few new 50 kW chargers at existing locations on the east coast and around Texas. I think it was originally intended to be 50 chargers but ended up being 33 completed updates although perhaps a few more were installed since I last paid attention to it.

Basically, EA were starting from a small team of folks at VW and rapidly hiring people, holding initial discussions and bid meetings with equipment and service suppliers, working to write and finalize their first investment cycle plans.

They have figured out their initial approximate charger locations now and hired a company that specializes in doing deals with commercial property owners to arrange the final specific locations. They have also done deals with some existing charging providers like SemaConnect and EVConnect to deal with L2 AC community charging installations at the 17 metro areas they committed to (the yellow blobs on the route map) and with Greenlots for their billing and online charger management system.

Rolling something out like this requires a lot of planning, much of it needs to be coordinated and centralized. Once that is nailed down then various locations can be installed by electrical contractors in parallel.

In reality, all of the highway charging hardware is 150 kW or greater and these products are just becoming available for delivery from vendors like ABB and ChargePoint. The specification documents for the more powerful updates of CHAdeMO and CCS are still dribbling out of the standards committees.

Almost nobody has installed this new generation of equipment anywhere — even in Europe. I think Porsche has installed a couple of non-public sites and there is a first public site in Germany but it’s only 175 kW until it is upgraded at a later time. In the US, there is a non-public EVgo 175 kW ABB site in Fremont, CA and EVgo says they will open their first 350 kW site in Baker, CA within the next month or so. Even if EA had done all of the planning, secured all of the location deals and permits, and did all of the trenching and preparation work they still couldn’t have installed the charger hardware because it hadn’t shipped from the equipment vendors yet.

The CA first cycle plan supplement has an illustration in section 8.6 that implies that EA is trying to get all (or at least most) of the highway locations installed by the end of 2018 although they didn’t necessarily imply they would be fully complete and available to the public by then.

It will be fun to watch all of this roll out over the next year and a half like it’s been exciting to watch the Supercharger rollout by Tesla.
 
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Great Work Yggd! Very informative! Cant wait to see what the final EPA range is as I believe it will be closer to the Model X 75D. Not that you have not done enough work so far, I would love to see vs the Model 3. I think people will be surprised at how close these vehicles are in terms of size and passenger space as the Model 3 is very close to the Model S but more head room.

I dont want to bag on the IPace to much as I really like it and I think they will sell every one they can make with demand to spare. Hopefully that will be enough to encourage them to have their next gen car be more competitive on pricing because its pretty good otherwise. The charging network is also lacking but should be more available by 2020 when their Gen 2 version of the IPace and other cars could potentially come out.

I think this car will be more painful for Daimler and BMW then Tesla as it relates to competition. Certainly in the UK and places like Norway where EVs rule.
Comparing to the Model 3 isn't so easy to do in a meaningful way. Not yet.

I've been using European data, and the Model 3 hasn't arrived in Europe. There are a lot of unknowns, and the cars are also pretty different. I think it would make more sense to make the comparison once the AWD version is out.
 
I tried to equip the i-Pace with all the equipment Tesla has as standard, to see how Jaguar and Tesla compare.

And this is how I view the comparison with Tesla, from my Norwegian perspective:

Nice chart. May I ask why you didn't choose to compare vehicle automation?

I wanted to point the towing "capabilities" however.

Even if the iPace has a tow hitch and a 750KG capacity, the entire towing endeavor is questionable.

How far can you take a trailer, and does one really take a trailer just 160KM and then turn around?

Can you imagine dragging a 750KG load from San Francisco to New York in an iPace versus doing it in a Model X?
 
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...

I think this car will be more painful for Daimler and BMW then Tesla as it relates to competition. Certainly in the UK and places like Norway where EVs rule.
It should be easier for some others because Magna-Steyr is becoming quite adept at BEV, partly through the I-Pace. I will be surprised if both BMW and Mercedes-Benz do not employ Magna-Steyr for some BEV. After all they already build some models for both of them and they've developed an excellent track record over the years.
 
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I put together the attached M3 LR/i-Pace/MX75D comparo based on publicly available specifications. The estimated US price for the i-Pace is based on the ratio of i-Pace to X75D pricing in the UK. Hopefully Jaguar will announce US pricing at the Geneva show next week. Feedback welcome.

Thanks for the comparison. It sure makes the Model 3 and Model X look good.

The Model X has three times the cargo and/or 2 extra passengers for a similar price. Of course, if don't care about passenger space, cargo or a charging network, it could be a good choice.

The Model 3 has similar specs to the iPace for 40% less cost. Although, you would have to add approx. $5K for AWD/Smart Air. So $51,000 vs. $72,000 is a more accurate comparison.
 
it will be interesting to see some real world reviews. It's no Model X (in size etc) but it's great to see more mainstream manufacturers come out with a full EV. Jag know about quality but quality materials = more weight so will see how the range pans out.

My big negative with it would be the slow charging. That really limits it for me. People charging at home and doing school runs/commutes should be ok though and that's maybe where Jag are focused.

That is a ton of money to blow away on something limited to school runs and a work commute. You will need to add in the cost of another vehicle - either a Tesla or an ICE car on top of the iPace if you didn't already have one.

The more I think about it, the more I think the iPace is already DOA for someone who can critically evaluate things.

iPace has different styling than a Tesla - thats all I will give it. It loses everywhere else. If you can buy it just for that facet, you have much more dollars than sense.
 
That is a ton of money to blow away on something limited to school runs and a work commute. You will need to add in the cost of another vehicle - either a Tesla or an ICE car on top of the iPace if you didn't already have one.

The more I think about it, the more I think the iPace is already DOA for someone who can critically evaluate things.

iPace has different styling than a Tesla - thats all I will give it. It loses everywhere else. If you can buy it just for that facet, you have much more dollars than sense.
Totally disagree. I travel 200 kms (one way) every other weekend to the mountains, with a roof box. If you go 300 km you maybe will need 1 charging stop depending on tempo. That should not be any problem at a regular basis, just combine it with shopping groceries for the weekend or have a evening meal.

If you drive cross europe/US, 1000+ km each weekend, then you have a point. The SuperCharging network is great for that use case. But who does that?
 
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I recall Elon Musk saying that he wanted to build a great car that just happens to be an EV.

If the goal of Tesla is to get all people interested in EVs, not just win the business of EV enthusiasts, the design of the car has to reflect that. The storage compartments actually do matter a great deal to many customers. We see that reflected in Model 3, which has plenty of cup holders, door pockets, and bins.

Catering to people interested in EVs doesn’t accelerate the transition to a sustainable future. Automakers have to get everyone on board, including those who couldn’t care less about powertrains. This means building cars that match people’s practical needs.
Even if you believe Elon’s hyperbole, I doubt he was considering storage compartments in what makes a great car.

Twenty years ago you needed storage compartments for maps, CDs, and change for the toll booth. Not now.
 
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Totally disagree. I travel 200 kms (one way) every other weekend to the mountains, with a roof box. If you go 300 km you maybe will need 1 charging stop depending on tempo. That should not be any problem at a regular basis, just combine it with shopping groceries for the weekend or have a evening meal.

If you drive cross europe/US, 1000+ km each weekend, then you have a point. The SuperCharging network is great for that use case. But who does that?

Even if the iPace were to meet your use case, 90% of the time, what do you do for the other 10%? You are forced to have a backup or alternative vehicle right?

I have a 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan (with all seats removed) for the 1% of use cases where the Model X wouldn't fit - raw bulk carrying capacity. Though I can probably eliminate even that 1% if I bought a 5x8 trailer.

Also, if you need to transport 6 or more people - you are SOL with the iPace. You need two cars or a minivan. Why people need Minivans is to fit that extra 1-2 person that most SUVs cannot accommodate. It's also night/day difference for ingree/egress for 6-7 passengers on a Model X versus a Minivan.

Model X eliminated both the Audi Q5 and Honda Odyssey we had for 99% of use cases.

The iPace is just a fancier Q5 alternative with added hardship for ranged travel.

Is the picture starting to get a little more clear on the biggest advantage the Model X has over the iPace?

The Model X can replace more than 1 vehicle. The iPace can only be an extra vehicle. That to me means toy purchase.
 
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@MXWing and if the Model X had stow and go seating you'd have your perfect car ;) (Well bar the doors, which a sliding set up like the Caravan delivers for a fraction of the cost if you don't want the faux vanity of trying to claim it's an SUV not a minivan.).

There is no "perfect car", all have downsides. The objective (as the numerically obsessed in this thread like to point out), and the subjective. The latter you can't capture in a spreadsheet.
 
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