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Jaguar I-Pace

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Look, other than you, I have a more differentiated view on both cars. And don't just hate the Jaguar, because it isn't a Tesla.

IMO it looks good, with all upcoming charging stations it seems practical enough for long distance, not just a toy car and it is cheaper, than the S 75D. Trunk is smaller, than the S, but wheelbase is longer and the car is wider, so passenger space, especially rear seat headroom should be better, not sure though.

It also has 480 km WLTP range, while the Model S has 490 km NEDC range, so not sure which one really has more range.

Both are excellent cars, though. And the Model S is still great, especially if you want a lot of trunk space. And IMO the S looks a bit better, but that's just my personal taste.

I do like the Jaguar and I think it will bring even more people to drive electric. And it is the first real Tesla competition, which is why you and others seem to hate it just as much as I hated that stupid Sega Genesis.

Thank you. Appreciate you not throwing all my logic and reasoning under the "fanboy" bus. :)

It's not because it's a "non-Tesla" is a reason that generates the hate. I was pretty irked by the race video which we both know is an apples to rutabaga comparison. Jaguar didn't race the S (which is what it should be comparing against), and didn't race the top line X.

To use your Sega Genesis example, it's like Sega making the claim that because it has "BLAST PROCESSING" is why Sonic is faster than Mario.

On the issue of "price" - I believe the iPace is much more expensive than the S75D once you add in all the options to make it an equivalent or "better" car.

It's trying to compete with Tesla but also brings in a lot of the traditional auto baggage as well. A dealership is going to have iPace with packages installed. With production rate, minimal trims and options are unlikely. I think everyone will end up paying more than they bargained for.

An S is so easy to configure in comparison.
-PUP Yes/No
-EAP/FSD Yes/No/Add Later (No on the iPace)
-Rear Facing Seats Yes/No (No on the iPace)
-Interior Package
-Wheels
 
Agree with @R.S , the Jag will be perfect for those customers that think the S is to low and big, and the X is to big/don't fancy falcon wings. Probably these are new electric car buyers and less existing Tesla owners.

And you will be covering 5-600 km on one charge. Of course I now know after a year of potential SuC which has been barely used, but a newbie, SuC might be THE selling argument.

I think I use the supercharger much less than the average person. Maybe 10 plug ins within 14 months.

How OFTEN you use it matters much less than DO YOU HAVE THE OPTION IF AND WHEN YOU NEED IT?

iPace already DOA unless I also had a gas car if I want to go to from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. I'm not even considering cross country trips, and not considering towing more than some bikes. I wouldn't know the difference between an iPace and S/X from a charging standpoint if I were a newbie and all I did was make drive to Grandma's house 200KM away at the maximum.

You do AP2 reviews. I look forward to the your iPace vs Tesla autonomy comparisons.
 
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iPace already DOA unless I also had a gas car if I want to go to from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
Why is that? EVgo’s new location with four 350 kW charger stalls in Baker, CA should be open for business in the next few weeks way before the first I-Pace can be delivered here in the 2nd half of 2018.

Even without the Baker chargers I’ve driven a Bolt EV from LA to LV and back by way of EVgo’s charger location in Victorville. It works as long as you drive at modest speeds.
 
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Why is that? EVgo’s new location with four 350 kW charger stalls in Baker, CA should be open for business in the next few weeks way before the first I-Pace can be delivered here in the 2nd half of 2018.

Even without the Baker chargers I’ve driven a Bolt EV from LA to LV and back by way of EVgo’s charger location in Victorville. It works as long as you drive at modest speeds.

How long each leg of the journey counting charging time and driving time? I am certain it would have been substantially faster in a Model 3 or a Model S.

I went to Vegas as a MX 60D.. I came back as a MX 75D. Saw one alert saying I needed to drive slower to make it to the next Supercharger. I was having none of that. Life is too short to finagle your driving speed to not run out of juice.

Regarding the EVGO charger It's vaporware until it's actually done and up running. It was announced in Dec 2016. Tesla put up 40 chargers in about 4 month from the permit date.

With EVGO and 4 stalls, what do you do if they max out? Folks will be charging at 20KW or slower at those last miles.

Also with EVGO, if I want the best pricing, I have to pay $9.99 per month plus per minute charge. I need to download some app, and then browse the website to see if I can find a charger somewhere.

I don't THINK with charging on the Tesla. I just tell it - "Navigate to Statue of Liberty" I could be at the Golden Gate bridge and I have no worries of getting there while dealing with EVGO.

Someone is welcome to drive an iPace from Golden Gate to Statue of Liberty while dragging 750KG and taking 3 months to do it to prove its possible but I don't see the benefit of going "counter-culture" just "because".

Don't understand playing around with an iPace when you can just drag your Model X and a semi truck through a SC if you felt like it.


tesla-supercharger-baker-ca-40-stalls.jpg


screen-shot-2018-02-20-at-10-51-30-am.jpg
 
Thank you. Appreciate you not throwing all my logic and reasoning under the "fanboy" bus. :)

It's not because it's a "non-Tesla" is a reason that generates the hate. I was pretty irked by the race video which we both know is an apples to rutabaga comparison. Jaguar didn't race the S (which is what it should be comparing against), and didn't race the top line X.

To use your Sega Genesis example, it's like Sega making the claim that because it has "BLAST PROCESSING" is why Sonic is faster than Mario.

So you feel Tesla was cheated by that clip? Well, in truth of course it doesn't really matter, they can easily answer with their own video and if they show as long and detailed shots of the I-Pcae, as Jaguar did of the X, then both companies have have ultimately won.
On the issue of "price" - I believe the iPace is much more expensive than the S75D once you add in all the options to make it an equivalent or "better" car.

It's trying to compete with Tesla but also brings in a lot of the traditional auto baggage as well. A dealership is going to have iPace with packages installed. With production rate, minimal trims and options are unlikely. I think everyone will end up paying more than they bargained for.

An S is so easy to configure in comparison.
-PUP Yes/No
-EAP/FSD Yes/No/Add Later (No on the iPace)
-Rear Facing Seats Yes/No (No on the iPace)
-Interior Package
-Wheels

On the other hand each of those options is super expensive on a Tesla, you can't have rear heated seats w/o spending 5k on PUP, or traffic aware cruise control with lane holding, w/o spending 5k on EAP. And since no one at Tesla can really tell me when EAP will end and where FSD will start, in terms of features, I just don't know if 5k is a good price, or way too much.

My current car is now on it's 3rd year of the lease, with AP1 and while it is great, there are many features promised, that I never got. So I won't get FSD, just because it might some day give me more than a Level 2 system, which is what EAP should be according to their website. And 5k for level 2 is a lot, even if it probably is the best Level 2 around. And Jaguar's Level 2 is cheaper, but probably less capable.

Rear facing seats are great for everyone who needs them, no argument there.

Interior package is again expensive, you can have a nicer interior with the Jaguar, for less money.

Both have expensive wheels, though not directly comparable. But the S and X wheels are very expensive in general. Going from 20" to 22" on the X is more expensive, than going from 18" to 22" on the Jaguar. Though I am not really a fan of big wheels. They are inefficient and make the ride more harsh. Great for a sports car, but not for a daily driver.

I configured a Jaguar to the specks of the S 75D I am thinking of replacing my current S 90D with and it turned out cheaper, with some extra options I like, like HUD, or the gesture controlled trunk, but also some downsides.

In the end I will take a look at this, the Audi EV and the then most recent S and decide. It might very well be a S again, but I am not so sure anymore, as I have been before. On the other hand my wife and I will definitely also own a Model 3, buying not leasing in that case, so I will at least have one Tesla at home.
 
with all upcoming charging stations

I admire your optimism :)

We have Suerpchargers in the UK which have been under construction for 9 months. Clearly it doesn't take Tesla that long ... the rest of the time is Red Tape for Utility supply etc. (and Tesla say that they are, now, choosing new sites based on the ability to actually get the construction finished <sigh>) Crazy I know ... and perhaps the Germans are, sensibly, more pragmatic about such things such that they don't happen ... but I still think 3rd Party highspeed and hassle-free charging is a long way off. I look forward to being proven wrong though :cool:

Here's one (in Ireland, seeems that they have Red Tape too :( ). Finished and looking beautiful over a month ago ... not turned on yet :(

Superchargers - Castlebellingham, Ireland (N & S)
 
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I admire your optimism :)

We have Suerpchargers in the UK which have been under construction for 9 months. Clearly it doesn't take Tesla that long ... the rest of the time is Red Tape for Utility supply etc. (and Tesla say that they are, now, choosing new sites based on the ability to actually get the construction finished <sigh>) Crazy I know ... and perhaps the Germans are, sensibly, more pragmatic about such things such that they don't happen ... but I still think 3rd Party highspeed and hassle-free charging is a long way off. I look forward to being proven wrong though :cool:

Here's one (in Ireland, seeems that they have Red Tape too :( ). Finished and looking beautiful over a month ago ... not turned on yet :(

Superchargers - Castlebellingham, Ireland (N & S)

AFAIK one problem Tesla has in Germany right now, is that the EU had enough of all the charging standards and just mandated CCS at every public charging station, which is a problem for Tesla, because they don't want other cars to charge at their charging stations.

While I like the EPs idea in general, I can understand why Tesla doesn't want to open their station to other cars, as well. In Germany they solved that problem by not making the charging stations public, so the new ones now have a (open) gate and they are on private property. At least that's the plan for now.

Maybe you have similar issues in GB? It sounds like it, since they seem finished, but not turned on. You are still bound to EU regulations, though that will change soon ;). Maybe that will be the upside of Brexit, easier SC deployment.
 
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Maybe you have similar issues in GB? It sounds like it, since they seem finished, but not turned on

As I understand it its just our Utility companies, who have a monopoly, being slow and "don't care" about doing the work they have been contracted to do ... or possibly the landlord being slow ... or maybe a Planning Permission issue (but I would have expected that would have come to light before construction started) either way, totally useless "service" provided to Tesla's by the Service Supplier and someone should be hung out to dry ... its typical Service for England though ... :(
 
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@upgraded I'm not sure that's entirely true.

The DNO's can be a bit slow in gaining way-leaves etc. however if you look at the planning documents for Leicester Forest East as an example, it's not actually Tesla applying. Rather a third party grid arbitrage VC business...... The plot thickens.
 
@smac thanks. I was paraphrasing from memory, and probably misremembering!, something @arg said from the recent clubhouse meet:
  • Other sites stuck with various problems, many (but not all) with wayleaves for power.
  • The rapid building last year ahead of sorting the power supply is now seen as something of a mistake: for the ones they are working on at the moment, the intention is to get the power sorted before actually building the charging bays.
 
US pricing is out and I have to say they have upped their game on competitiveness. The SE is about 75k, comes with full leather seats, glass roof and, power tailgate, adaptive cruise control and 20" wheels. Base car is even below 70k, so actually less than I expected.

So actually not bad value for money, I'd say. I'll be interested to see how Audi will follow up on this with their EV SUV.
 
US pricing vs European pricing is excellent.

About $76k for a vehicle comprably equipped to a base Model S.

I-Pace value for the money vs Tesla value for the money is poor.

According to Motortrend coefficient of drag is .29 vs .24 for Model X and .23 for Model 3. Stupid ICE grill.

And I can't find a picture of the I Pace frunk just saw a quick image in a vid. Looks like a little filing cabinet with space for a few documents.

656 litre of storage for Ipace vs 744 for Model S plus 150 litre frunk.

I Pace frunk is basically an oddly configured glove box.
 
....And I can't find a picture of the I Pace frunk just saw a quick image in a vid. Looks like a little filing cabinet with space for a few documents.

656 litre of storage for Ipace vs 744 for Model S plus 150 litre frunk.

I Pace frunk is basically an oddly configured glove box.

@jelloslug posted a large photo of it many posts back (see link below). Kind of has you scratching your head and saying "Why?!, Why bother and why give up that space?" I can see why Jaguar doesn't show off the space in their media photos. Anyone who is going to want to buy an SUV to haul family and kids around is going to want storage space. I don't see a brown paper grocery bag fitting in there and not even sure about a kid's backpack or a gym bag due to the odd configuration.

Jaguar I-Pace
 
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How long each leg of the journey counting charging time and driving time? I am certain it would have been substantially faster in a Model 3 or a Model S.

I went to Vegas as a MX 60D.. I came back as a MX 75D. Saw one alert saying I needed to drive slower to make it to the next Supercharger. I was having none of that. Life is too short to finagle your driving speed to not run out of juice.

Regarding the EVGO charger It's vaporware until it's actually done and up running. It was announced in Dec 2016. Tesla put up 40 chargers in about 4 month from the permit date.

With EVGO and 4 stalls, what do you do if they max out? Folks will be charging at 20KW or slower at those last miles.

Also with EVGO, if I want the best pricing, I have to pay $9.99 per month plus per minute charge. I need to download some app, and then browse the website to see if I can find a charger somewhere.

I don't THINK with charging on the Tesla. I just tell it - "Navigate to Statue of Liberty" I could be at the Golden Gate bridge and I have no worries of getting there while dealing with EVGO.

Someone is welcome to drive an iPace from Golden Gate to Statue of Liberty while dragging 750KG and taking 3 months to do it to prove its possible but I don't see the benefit of going "counter-culture" just "because".

Don't understand playing around with an iPace when you can just drag your Model X and a semi truck through a SC if you felt like it.


tesla-supercharger-baker-ca-40-stalls.jpg


screen-shot-2018-02-20-at-10-51-30-am.jpg

That semi won't fit under the roof of the Baker Supercharger, I already tried it. Have to agree with most of your points though :)

RT
 
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Ok you'd have to unhook but still going to be impressive as far as Model X capabilities. Still looking forward to the "P100D towing an iPace beats an iPace" in a race video. :)

How much does the iPace weigh again?

Might be pushing the official weight limit, unless it's a really light trailer.

But I think the P100D would probably win, and it would make a funny video.
 
I don't expect Tesla to make such a video. They want to smack-down ICE vehicles not other electrics (take the hint Jag).
The I-Pace is decent looking. Dislike the grill and a few other things but I'll definitely go for a test drive; already contacted my local Jag dealer.
This is a careful, concerted effort by JLR and I applaud them for it. As for Tesla competition; Tesla competes with premium ICE vehicles and it does so very very well. If we think of I-Pace being a Tesla competitor then it must also be an ICE competitor at the same level. This includes JLR's own products, especially Land Rover. JLR should fear this car more than Tesla IMO. Audi, BMW and Daimler and Lexus, more so.

Although it does seem to occupy the empty spaces between S,X and 3 AWD, I spec'd one out on the website. using my X90D as a guide.
Mine came to about $86k with most of the same or similar options.
 
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