I guess it wasn't as bad as the title makes it sound. I'm really excited about my MS for so many reasons and love telling people about it. The truth is I read most everything on the anti ev gibberish thread and a lot of it is over my head. While this guy agrees that my MPGe is clearly better, he has the idea that the whole Hybrid/EV thing is foolish. He feels that the energy used to create the car nullifies any advantage. It's not really the long tailpipe thing. It's more the energy (dirty,and expensive) required to create the batteries. I'm prepared for the long tailpipe argument. I wasn't prepared for the battery thing. I've looked for something easy to understand with a reputable source and can't really find one. I've found a lot of well to wheel stuff but nothing specifically on the batteries. His feeling is that it's just as dirty and expensive to use energy creating and disposing of/recycling the batteries as it is to use an ICE . I felt badly that I was unprepared.