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Landlord won't let me charge, says I need a permit for the 125v portable charger?

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Hi everyone,

Happy owner of a M3D here.

Our landlord claims that she will need to get a permit for us to use our Tesla official portable charger with the standard 125v NEMA 5-15-P plug (the three pronger common to computers, blenders, etc.)

As a result, she isn't letting us plug in the Tesla. Public chargers work, but I feel bad clogging up the public infrastructure every week and it's a hike.

Is there any documentation (NEC, building code, anything "official") that specifically states that a permit is *not* required for a car (or any big load) charging on a 5-15P plugged into a NEMA 5-15R?

I need something to show her to assuage her fears/preconceptions.

I've done many searches including exact matches and I can't find any specific references for this.

This is in Palo Alto, CA. There aren't a lot of reasonable housing options here and she is otherwise cool.

Thanks!
 
Hi Dan, we pay for the electricity, so there's no concern on that part. Good point, though.

I think she just needs to see some official-looking documents to assure herself that it's ok to plug in this newfangled electric horseless carriage thingy. Unfortunately, most rules don't specify what you *don't* need a permit for in the Bay Area. It's usually the other way around.
 
Thanks everyone, yes I also feel the same feelings as many of you, but the reality is that housing here is ridiculous and I need to stay on good terms.

The UL Listed angle is interesting.

For future tenants with old-school landlords, I did find this for Washington State:
If your household appliance is cord-and-plug (101 KB PDF) connected, then
  • no, an electrical permit is not required to install, repair or replace the appliance.
For Palo Alto (ugh):
[Exempt from permits]: CBC ELECTRICAL: Repairs and maintenance: Minor repair work, including the replacement of lamps or the connection of approved portable electrical equipment to approved permanently installed receptacles.

Is there a list of "approved portable electrical equipment" lol? Will keep searching and will post for others.
 
Apparently, you don't need a permit to install an Oil Derrick in Palo Alto, but a kitchen countertop without permits means lifetime imprisonment. Big oil ftw.

https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/18404

Your landlord is an idiot and needs to do some research before feeding you a bunch of BS. You should ask her if you need a permit to use the hair dryer. It draws about the same current.
The hair dryer comment is hilarious... unfortunately, she doesn't understand what amps are.
 
Wow yea they aren't very intelligent - there is a reason that outlets are designed so they can physically only accomodate a connector which is of the same rating as the outlet/circuit. If we relied purely on someone getting a permit to plug something in, we'd have so many fires its not even funny.

If you can (reasonably) insert a connector into an outlet, it will be fine assuming your circuits are up to code. That said, i've seen people hammer the wrong plug into an outlet because it "wouldn't fit" :D
 
Is this something the City of Palo Alto says you need? She may know that in many cities they require a permit for installing an EV charging solution so thinks this would require one too. If she's focused on getting the permit, I'd say the City should be your first stop. Maybe a letter from them stating whether or not your situation requires a permit is all you need to get to satisfy her. Other than that maybe having an electrician say what code is for Palo Alto would suffice.

She's probably concerned about a fire hazard and getting sued if something isn't permitted on the property and there's damage and a permit should have been obtained. If she has her concern addressed, hey getting to have charging for your car at home in a rental is well worth the effort. My take? Life is too short and the car is too fun to drive to mess up the opportunity to get charging at home.
 
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Our landlord claims that she will need to get a permit for us to use our Tesla official portable charger with the standard 125v NEMA 5-15-P plug (the three pronger common to computers, blenders, etc.)
A quick conference call with your landlord and Palo Alto utilities at (650) 329-2241 might take care of this. They normally answer the phone and answer questions without hold.

I can understand why the landlord would be confused. Palo Alto does require a permit for installing EVSE. She obviously doesn’t realize that plugging in a portable EVSE to a 5-15 outlet is just like using any UL approved appliance, and not installing an EVSE.
 
Hi everyone,

Happy owner of a M3D here.

Our landlord claims that she will need to get a permit for us to use our Tesla official portable charger with the standard 125v NEMA 5-15-P plug (the three pronger common to computers, blenders, etc.)

As a result, she isn't letting us plug in the Tesla. Public chargers work, but I feel bad clogging up the public infrastructure every week and it's a hike.

Is there any documentation (NEC, building code, anything "official") that specifically states that a permit is *not* required for a car (or any big load) charging on a 5-15P plugged into a NEMA 5-15R?

I need something to show her to assuage her fears/preconceptions.

I've done many searches including exact matches and I can't find any specific references for this.

This is in Palo Alto, CA. There aren't a lot of reasonable housing options here and she is otherwise cool.

Thanks!

Have her try to pull a permit or do it yourself. Make no changes then have it inspected.
 
Hi everyone,

Happy owner of a M3D here.

Our landlord claims that she will need to get a permit for us to use our Tesla official portable charger with the standard 125v NEMA 5-15-P plug (the three pronger common to computers, blenders, etc.)

As a result, she isn't letting us plug in the Tesla. Public chargers work, but I feel bad clogging up the public infrastructure every week and it's a hike.

Is there any documentation (NEC, building code, anything "official") that specifically states that a permit is *not* required for a car (or any big load) charging on a 5-15P plugged into a NEMA 5-15R?

I need something to show her to assuage her fears/preconceptions.

I've done many searches including exact matches and I can't find any specific references for this.

This is in Palo Alto, CA. There aren't a lot of reasonable housing options here and she is otherwise cool.

Thanks!

You may offer to reimburse her for the permit (up to X dollars) that she can get. Oh, since there aren't any, you are probably safe.
 
So there is nothing I am aware of that is “against the rules” to plug a Tesla into a regular 5-15 receptacle off a random circuit that already exists. As has been pointed out, the UMC Gen 2 is UL rated, so if folks asked questions I might direct them to that (you can go lookup the UL certification on the UL search tool).

Now with that being said, I am always extremely cautious to plug an EV into an existing circuit since the EV can (will) draw 100% of the circuit capacity and so if there is anything else at all on the entire circuit it may overload it. Traditional circuits are also daisy chained from one receptacle to another and so there are a LOT of potential points of failure.

The danger of involving code inspectors in this discussion is that the NEC says that if you are installing a receptacle for EV charging then it must be a single receptacle on a dedicated circuit. So while nothing is illegal about your existing receptacle and nothing I am aware of precludes you from plugging into a random existing circuits with your Tesla, if you talk to an inspector they probably want a dedicated circuit for a new install.
 
I'd go with the UL listing and show some other appliances that have UL listing.

Where is your breaker box relative to where you are plugging in? If close, you might consider having an outlet installed. 14-50 ideally (240v/50a), but even down to a 6-20 (240v/20a) would still be an improvement over what you have now.
 
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So there is nothing I am aware of that is “against the rules” to plug a Tesla into a regular 5-15 receptacle off a random circuit that already exists. As has been pointed out, the UMC Gen 2 is UL rated, so if folks asked questions I might direct them to that (you can go lookup the UL certification on the UL search tool).

Now with that being said, I am always extremely cautious to plug an EV into an existing circuit since the EV can (will) draw 100% of the circuit capacity and so if there is anything else at all on the entire circuit it may overload it. Traditional circuits are also daisy chained from one receptacle to another and so there are a LOT of potential points of failure.

The danger of involving code inspectors in this discussion is that the NEC says that if you are installing a receptacle for EV charging then it must be a single receptacle on a dedicated circuit. So while nothing is illegal about your existing receptacle and nothing I am aware of precludes you from plugging into a random existing circuits with your Tesla, if you talk to an inspector they probably want a dedicated circuit for a new install.
It will not use 100% capacity. It will automatically use only 80% per code for continuous loads. There is no danger what so ever using the portable EVSE on a standard 15amp residential circuit.
 
It will not use 100% capacity. It will automatically use only 80% per code for continuous loads. There is no danger what so ever using the portable EVSE on a standard 15amp residential circuit.

My apologies for being blunt, but you are wrong on both counts.

An EVSE is by definition a continuous load according to NEC. For continuous loads you must calculate them as if they are 125% of their actual draw. So the Tesla will take 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit. 12 times 1.25 is 15 amps. Hence according to NEC load calculations that circuit is 100% subscribed (assuming it is 15a and not 20a). Above 80% load there is a chance your breaker will eventually blow as well during charging since they are thermal devices and are sensitive to heat. It is a long story, but standard test conditions for breakers don’t take into account that’s they are installed with adjacent breakers which are also getting hot and can impact the breaker in question.

On the comment about “no danger whatsoever” that is extremely strong language to use. There are several issues:

1. We don’t know what else is actually on that circuit. If there are other loads on that circuit then you are relying on a circuit breaker to trip when an overload happens instead of starting a fire. There are defective circuit breakers out there.
2. You are relying on the installation quality of all the components and connections in the chain. If any one of them is bad it could result in heat/arcing/fire.
3. You are also trusting that damage has not been done over the years (plug tension is low due to repeated use, etc...)

I agree that in general on modern wiring with a quality installation it *should* be safe, but I would never claim there is no danger whatsoever.

It is important for people to realize and understand that due to the massive amount of energy that EV’s need, their default behavior is to suck as much juice as possible from whatever circuit they are on so that they can charge as fast as possible. My M3 LR can suck down 11.5kw given access to a high enough amperage circuit. That is nearly triple what the next highest load in my house is and if I was using the UMC it would be the vastly highest load that was not hard wired as well.

My callout here is just that caution should be exercised. EV’s are a fantastic way to find “latent defects” in electrical wiring systems that may have existed for 20 years and nobody realized it. I would venture to guess that over time, loads on random 15a convenience circuits have gone down recently as lighting has moved nearly exclusively to LED and CFL. So EV’s are probably the only thing (except maybe a space heater) that will really push 15/20a convenience circuits hard (and heaters generally cycle on and off periodically giving the wire a chance to cool a bit).

Tesla’s do have fantastic features to attempt to detect dangerous conditions (by monitoring voltage drop during charging), but this is not foolproof.

Ironically, I feel like charging off random 15a and 20a 120v convenience receptacle circuits is more dangerous than 240v circuits since there are so many additional points of failure and because they have to charge for so many hours constantly to gain any reasonable amount of range. This also pushes them into charging overnight when the danger of a house fire is greatest since folks are sleeping. While I would not dictate my life schedule around this, my M3 charges in a little over an hour when I get home. Generally during dinner. (eventually I will change this once there is a financial incentive for me to move it off peak)