Landlord won't let me charge, says I need a permit for the 125v portable charger?

[davewill]

Here's what I would do. Tell the landlord that you researched (asking here is research, right?) and discovered that no permit is required. Suggest that the landlord send their electrician over to inspect the outlet to make sure the wiring and outlet are in good order. Suggest paying for an hour of the electrician's time if the landlord balks. Alternately, pay for an hour of your OWN electrician's time, then tell the landlord no permit was needed and your electrician gave the plan a clean bill of health. Then plug it in whether they say yes or no since they can't actually stop you.

 

[Akikiki]

Here's what I would do. Tell the landlord that you researched (asking here is research, right?) and discovered that no permit is required. Suggest that the landlord send their electrician over to inspect the outlet to make sure the wiring and outlet are in good order. Suggest paying for an hour of the electrician's time if the landlord balks. Alternately, pay for an hour of your OWN electrician's time, then tell the landlord no permit was needed and your electrician gave the plan a clean bill of health. Then plug it in whether they say yes or no since they can't actually stop you.

This is a very interesting problem and thread.

y3llow, the posters here have all provided some really smart advice. Everyone. Davewill explains what I think it probably the most clever, practical and strategic advice. I would take Davewill's advice and change it just a little. But I could not have suggested this without his idea. Great thinking - Nice effort Davewill.

If it was me, I would tell her that since she is the person with the concern, that she find an electrician of her choosing and invite him to come by to check the service as your residence. But because its her concern, she should pay for the electrican's bill/time. IF she doesn't like that, then you could offer to split the bill with her. I'd point out that she's the one with the concern, - not you and your lease does not cover it one way or the other. If she does not agree, with any of this, then ask if she will accept a report from an electrician of your choosing? If she says yes, then and only then, you add, that if your electrician's report states there's no permit required, that you are entitled to deduct the entire cost of the bill from your rent, since she did not accept your offer to pay for half.

If she agrees with any of this, I would put it in writing via letter, email or even text to insure she acknowledge "the deal" before you do anything. And before you hire an electrician, make sure that they will provide a report to you so you can pass it to her.

 

[Rocky_H]

@Akikiki While that sounds interesting typed into a forum, good luck with hiring an electrician to book his travel/service time to tell you you are allowed to plug in a 120V appliance. I just wouldn't have any part of trying to present such a ludicrous concern to an electrician. She can deal with that and the embarrassment thereof.

 

[davewill]

@Akikiki While that sounds interesting typed into a forum, good luck with hiring an electrician to book his travel/service time to tell you you are allowed to plug in a 120V appliance. I just wouldn't have any part of trying to present such a ludicrous concern to an electrician. She can deal with that and the embarrassment thereof.

That's why I suggested having them inspect the wiring and outlet (and maybe minor repair, if needed) instead of asking for a "report". That's a completely normal request, and they would know exactly what the charge should be before they come out.

P.S. I do agree that it's the landlord's house and the landlord's concern, and they should really be paying for any electrical inspection/repair. I say this as a landlord. I'd only volunteer to help pay if that was the only way to keep the peace.

 

[Dr. J]

That's why I suggested having them inspect the wiring and outlet (and maybe minor repair, if needed) instead of asking for a "report". That's a completely normal request, and they would know exactly what the charge should be before they come out.

P.S. I do agree that it's the landlord's house and the landlord's concern, and they should really be paying for any electrical inspection/repair. I say this as a landlord. I'd only volunteer to help pay if that was the only way to keep the peace.

The wiring and outlet inspection is quite valid and possibly useful. Like!

 

[buttershrimp]

Is your landlord Bob Lutz dressed as a woman?

 

[derotam]

While I agree generally with the idea that since its the landlords concern that they should get the electrician, I would be wary of "fighting" the landlord...depending on your lease details...if you don't have guaranteed renewal in your lease and you piss off the landlord, they might not renew your lease. Obviously there are a lot of technicalities and local/state rules/laws that can affect things in different ways, but I would be careful how you bring things up to the landlord as different people react differently.

 

[BerTX]

While I agree generally with the idea that since its the landlords concern that they should get the electrician, I would be wary of "fighting" the landlord...depending on your lease details...if you don't have guaranteed renewal in your lease and you piss off the landlord, they might not renew your lease. Obviously there are a lot of technicalities and local/state rules/laws that can affect things in different ways, but I would be careful how you bring things up to the landlord as different people react differently.

It's not just the lease renewal -- chances are that somehow, somewhere in the lease, there is something unrelated to this that is technically being violated. There are also usually weasel-worded subjective clauses also, like "creating a nuisance" or "being a bad neighbor" that will cause problems. Don't poke the bear.

 

[Need]

Op could setup a "free" consultation with Tesla Solar and have the landlord to be there. Tell the landlord that the free consultation is a perk for buying the Tesla. It will just give her an idea how much energy it would save. During the consultation, ask the official looking guy dressed in Tesla jacket and cap, "Hey, I am wondering if I need a permit to charge my Tesla using the 110V outlet?" in front of the landlord. Hopefully he would say "no", but he said "I don't know, check with your city.." then OP would be screwed LOL.

 

[brkaus]

The more I think about this, the more I think paying an electrician of the landlords choice for a "circuit check" would be the approach I would take. While they are there, get a quote for a larger outlet.

Sure, the landlord is being a bit unreasonable, but why start a fight over ~ $100. Plus, if the property is older, it's probably a good idea.

Get an agreement first that will resolve the concern. Think about what would be the next steps if the electrician recommends something major like replacing a outdated panel.

 

[adaptabl]

This is a very interesting problem and thread.

y3llow, the posters here have all provided some really smart advice. Everyone. Davewill explains what I think it probably the most clever, practical and strategic advice. I would take Davewill's advice and change it just a little. But I could not have suggested this without his idea. Great thinking - Nice effort Davewill.

If it was me, I would tell her that since she is the person with the concern, that she find an electrician of her choosing and invite him to come by to check the service as your residence. But because its her concern, she should pay for the electrican's bill/time. IF she doesn't like that, then you could offer to split the bill with her. I'd point out that she's the one with the concern, - not you and your lease does not cover it one way or the other. If she does not agree, with any of this, then ask if she will accept a report from an electrician of your choosing? If she says yes, then and only then, you add, that if your electrician's report states there's no permit required, that you are entitled to deduct the entire cost of the bill from your rent, since she did not accept your offer to pay for half.

If she agrees with any of this, I would put it in writing via letter, email or even text to insure she acknowledge "the deal" before you do anything. And before you hire an electrician, make sure that they will provide a report to you so you can pass it to her.

And I would tell you to enjoy your new apartment because this one is not available for you.

Pay for your own electrician it is much cheaper than moving.

 

[buttershrimp]

And I would tell you to enjoy your new apartment because this one is not available for you.

Pay for your own electrician it is much cheaper than moving.

Why did you disagree with my joke man?

 

[adaptabl]

Why did you disagree with my joke man?

Because the landlord probable has legitimate concerns. EV's are new and I am sure she has had tenant issues before. I would want to do everything I could to educate her in a positive constructive way.

Maybe it was a joke but to her this is a serious issue.

 

[EVDRVN]

Some cities do require permits for EV chargers and there is good reason. Making a comparison to a hair dryer or leaf blower is not accurate as EVSE units are continuous load devices. Because of this an EVSE must be on a dedicated circuit with a outlet that should be inspected. This is important because of the high failure rate of 120V outlets and the heat from continuous load devices. 120V outlets are the highest failure point and a breaker is not the failsafe in these situations, I have seen many failed outlets that melted from wear, etc or worse. If I were a property owner without electrical knowledge at a minimum I would have the outlet inspected and of course check if a permit is required. Some municipalities do require permits even if an outlet is already installed and history shows this is not such a bad idea. There are many people that do not understand the loads and related issues of 120V EVSE units and IMO they should only be used as secondary devices or cut back to 10A. There are many 16A 120V EVSE units being sold that are being used on bad circuits or 20A outlets that have 14G wire because someone swapped the wrong outlet. In addition few people even know what a dedicated circuit means and others think that a breaker will always protect a circuit, that is completely false and irresponsible advice.

 

[brkaus]

Some cities do require permits for EV chargers and there is good reason. Making a comparison to a hair dryer or leaf blower is not accurate as EVSE units are continuous load devices like an EVSE. Because of this an EVSE must be on a dedicated circuit with a outlet that has been inspected. This is important because of the high failure rate of 120V outlets and the heat from continuous load devices. 120V outlets are the highest failure point and a breaker is not the failsafe in these situations, I have seen many failed outlets that melted from wear, etc or worse. If I were a property owner without electrical knowledge at a minimum I would have the outlet inspected and of course check if a permit is required. Some municipalities do require permits even if an outlet is already installed and history shows this is not such a bad idea. There are many people that do not understand the loads and related issues of 120V EVSE units and IMO they should only be used as secondary devices or cut back to 10A. There are many 16A 120V EVSE units that are being used on bad circuits or 20A outlets that have 14G wire because someone swapped the wrong outlet. In addition few people even know what a dedicated circuit means and others think that a breaker will always protect a circuit, that is completely false.

Which city requires this?

 

[EVDRVN]

Which city requires this?

Some municipalities in the Bay Area did for 120V, SF did previously for all outlets but that was in 2011. Palo Alto has lifted it for 120V. There are communities that do but I do not have a list handy. I have been in this industry more than 10 years, I hear these issues all the time and the number of problems on 120V charging is prolific. Many people use electrical systems and outlets for EV charging that are not even suitable for a "hair dryer". Far to many outlets are worn or oxidized creating high resistance and a cascading failure effect. I would not allow 120V charging on a property I owned unless it was hard wired since 120V outlets eventually fail under those loads and most outlets are very cheap unless commercial or hospital grade.

I have also spoken to thousands of "electricians" that "know what they are doing" and I can assure you that a large percentage have no clue about continuous loads or what the different types of NEMA outlets are by number because they do routine residential work or are not properly trained. Many also wire 240V outlets wrong resulting in 120V output, they are "sure" it is correct when they check it with a meter. The list goes on and on. Far too many people minimize EV charging safety based on their experience with common household appliances and many home owners are "experts" in electrical systems until you ask them questions they can't answer. Bad electrical advice is just that,

 

[derotam]

Some municipalities in the Bay Area did for 120V, SF did previously for all outlets but that was in 2011. Palo Alto has lifted it for 120V. There are communities that do but I do not have a list handy. I have been in this industry more than 10 years, I hear these issues all the time and the number of problems on 120V charging is prolific. Many people use electrical systems and outlets for EV charging that are not even suitable for a "hair dryer". Far to many outlets are worn or oxidized creating high resistance and a cascading failure effect. I would not allow 120V charging on a property I owned unless it was hard wired since 120V outlets eventually fail under those loads and most outlets are very cheap unless commercial or hospital grade.

The San Fran requirement also was only related to modifications of existing equipment or new installations. Plugging anything into an existing outlet is not a modification or new installation. Also, while the San Fran requirement did reference EVSE, it was defined as "charging equipment". The mobile connector while it may fit an EVSE definition, it does not fit a "charging equipment" definition as it is not technically charging equipment any more than an extension cord is.

 

[mswlogo]

Good points. There is a big difference between making a toast or drying your hair vs Charging at 80% of capacity of the circuit for 14 hrs a day, every day.

 

[BerTX]

Getting the circuit checked an verifying it is adequate, while an excellent idea, still does not require a permit. Somebody would have to come up with something in writing before I'll believe that ANY entity states that a permit is required to plug something into an existing outlet.

 

[EVDRVN]

Getting the circuit checked an verifying it is adequate, while an excellent idea, still does not require a permit. Somebody would have to come up with something in writing before I'll believe that ANY entity states that a permit is required to plug something into an existing outlet.

You do not need a permit to use an outlet however some municipalities can require a permit to use any EV charging requiring an inspection yet no one would follow this. On the other hand I think it is a good idea to have outlets inspected, the failure rate is high on older homes. The US would not have all these issues and many outlets if our system was not so antiquated. in the EU 240V allows fewer plug types, lower copper costs, thiner wires and more kw. A common 10A outlet there is 2400 watts. The plugs are also better designed and made than the junk we have here. 120v outlets in the US should have to meet better min requirements as some are garbage.