Read the thread. You're making assumptions based on your feelings that are not supported by the data.
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Lane-splitting motorcycle stoplight drag-race dilemma
- Thread starter TEG
- Start date
Read the thread. You're making assumptions based on your feelings that are not supported by the data.
Sandollars
I bleed Cardinal
Your car freaked out because it lost all sense of where the lane went. Watch it again. No lines or flow, This is a rare case but it happens.
Exactly, I can't even count the number of red light runners I've save myself from by taking that extra half second to check for tail end Charlies. You launch enough times and I can just about guarantee you'll get T-Boned at some point. Not worth it.
The point is Autopilot is not designed to be used at intersections. It certainly will not stop for a light. If your the first car at a light you must have disabled it.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Are there any conclusive studies? From a quick Google search, there actually seems to be very little data. One recent study from UC Berkeley that pops up often actually doesn't show whether lane splitting increases or decreases the probability of getting into a collision. It does note however that out of ~6000 accidents reported during the period they looked at, almost 1000 involved lane splitting at the time of the accident ...
Personally (as a car driver) I am not a fan of this practice. I often see them doing it on freeways at significant speed, and unless it's one of those super-loud Harleys, you often just don't see them coming. I have been startled more than once by a bike suddenly appearing next to me, and I have also once seen a motorcycle scrape along the body of a car in front of me because the gap suddenly narrowed.
Regarding the OP, I can only shake my head. Public roads are not the place to do "drag races".
The (hilariously-named) Hurt report is still the best study on the matter, but it's pretty old now to be fair. It's one of those things where people need to be smart about it, though. Doing 40mph faster than everyone else is dumb, but 5-10? Just dandy.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
The way I always handled it was leaving the lane split lined up as an "out" that I could accelerate into if I was at risk. Only every used it once and probably would have been okay if I'd stayed. Couldn't tell for sure because I was somewhere else rather quickly.
It was actually illegal where I was and also in home town it meant being a place where it was more likely to find sanding pebbles if the seasonal street sweepers had not been through. So generally was a bad place to put yourself on a regular basis.
RedModel3
Member
As a former motorcyclist in a state where lane splitting was not legal, I can say this. Some bikers are a-holes. Some drivers are a-holes. An accident usually happens when one is trying to out a-hole the other, for whatever reason. If I have a choice, I try to let the other person be the a-hole so I can live to tell about it. Besides, why not give the biker a wide berth so there's no chance of your car getting scratched? And blood can really mess up a good car wash.
Agreed, when modified. Usually the first mod a rider makes is to replace the too quiet stock exhaust system with something louder. For “safety” (Harley riders) or performance (non-Harley riders)
In either case, riders have a common bond between each other in the road. As do we Tesla drivers. Riders and Drivers have an appreciation for the machines they use. Therefore, striking up a conversation seems a good thing.
But now that I have re-read the question, since the light just turned green, let the bike rider go first. No need to show off for a motorcycle, wait to blow the doors off a BMW.
Motor-cyclist here too, and I did some research on this topic.
I think you're rationalizing, and you're not posting references to support your assertions.
Here are some facts:
- About 40% of motorcycle fatalities in 2016 were single vehicle accidents
- By far most fatalities involve frontal collisions (i.e., where the initial impact point is the front of the motorcycle)
- Of the multi-vehicle crashes, only 8.3% of fatal collisions were rear-end collisions (vs. 66.2% frontal collisions)
- Again among multi-vehicle crashes, non-collision fatalities were more common than rear-end collision fatalities at 8.6% (I believe that colliding with terrain might be considered a non-collision by the NHTSA's terminology)
Reference: FARS Encyclopedia: Vehicles - Motorcycles
So ultimately, I think the data are not on your side - motorcyclists filter to the front for their convenience, not so much for their safety.
FWIW: Although I haven't been riding recently, I did filter and lane-split, though I'd usually just filter in very heavy traffic where I thought it might take multiple light cycles to get through the light.
Here's a screenshot of the reference:
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I disagree with you. Being a biker myself I cringe when I see motorcyclists do that. All you need is a car to change lanes and not see you. When I stop I always watch the cars behind me as they come to a stop and am ready to move if they don't. Luckily I live in Ontario and it's illegal... But some bikers still do it. Maybe I'm just too super cautious with my life as I want to get home to my family. And I have been licensed to ride for 20 years. To each their own but I don't think it's safe.
And to contridict myself... If traffic is fully stopped with no room to maneuver...as all cars need to be on top of each other when they stop... Then I can see how this can be done safely as long as cars don't start moving.
As for the original question, I would let the biker go first. But I'm biased. Lol
mikeshyu
Member
I am both a motorcyclist and now a model 3 owner and yes I do split lanes at red lights. I believe the only state where splitting lanes is legal is California, where I currently reside.
When I split lanes I do try to notice the cars next to me. I pay special attention to Teslas, and any other high end sports cars in case they want to race. I try to takeoff quickly (when safe) in order not to block traffic, but to some drivers they see this as a challenge. When I clear the intersection and other cars, I immediately move into the adjacent lane that the Tesla or sports car was in.
Out of all the times splitting lane at red lights, only once was there a Tesla that had to "prove" their acceleration prowess to me. When we both reached the next red light and in our own lanes, when the light turned green, I went ahead an let him take off first.
I'm in Irvine where there is a high concentration of Teslas. Most of these Tesla drivers just drive normally like they would in any other sedan/SUV.
As a motorcyclist, there's an obvious bias, but to answer your question, let the motorcyclist launch first. Safer all around.
When I split lanes I do try to notice the cars next to me. I pay special attention to Teslas, and any other high end sports cars in case they want to race. I try to takeoff quickly (when safe) in order not to block traffic, but to some drivers they see this as a challenge. When I clear the intersection and other cars, I immediately move into the adjacent lane that the Tesla or sports car was in.
Out of all the times splitting lane at red lights, only once was there a Tesla that had to "prove" their acceleration prowess to me. When we both reached the next red light and in our own lanes, when the light turned green, I went ahead an let him take off first.
I'm in Irvine where there is a high concentration of Teslas. Most of these Tesla drivers just drive normally like they would in any other sedan/SUV.
As a motorcyclist, there's an obvious bias, but to answer your question, let the motorcyclist launch first. Safer all around.
mkspeedr
Member
In the past I always enjoyed your posts because your track guy. I thought track guys stick together.
If I am first at the light, I always look first before I go.. just in case the cross traffic does not stop. One time I did the same and saw a minivan going at 40 mph and I see that there is no way he would have stopped in time. I just stay at the green light and the car behind started to honk at me. One sec later, the minivan speeded across and stepped on the brake, by the time he stopped he has already crossed the intersection. I could have made it thru and the car behind me would have been T-boned. The minivan was going from left to right.. it would have go straight into the driver side door.. I think I saved the life of the driver behind who honked at me to go.
mkspeedr
Member
I have been commuting for 30 years on two wheels. I have been recording my commute and collecting data the last few years.
I need to publish a book or make some you tube videos. I am rarely (almost never) surprised anymore with vehicle stupidity.
It would be a great book or video...
I need to publish a book or make some you tube videos. I am rarely (almost never) surprised anymore with vehicle stupidity.
It would be a great book or video...
For what it is worth, I rode a "superbike" for 10 years, but got rid of it when I had kids...
Agreed. That is my strategy as well. As a former motorcycle rider I am sympathetic to bike lane splitters in heavy traffic and like to accommodate them. I am not sympathetic to bike lane splitters when dense traffic is moving at speed, they are just reckless fools but I certainly don’t want them to hit me so I still move over if I see them in time.
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