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Lane-splitting motorcycle stoplight drag-race dilemma

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Agreed. That is my strategy as well. As a former motorcycle rider I am sympathetic to bike lane splitters in heavy traffic and like to accommodate them. I am not sympathetic to bike lane splitters when dense traffic is moving at speed, they are just reckless fools but I certainly don’t want them to hit me so I still move over if I see them in time.
I feel about the same way when I am in a "cage".

The bikes I now own (all purchased as new):

1971 Black BMW R75/5
1984 Red Yamaha Venture
2002 Yel Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Blue Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Org/Blk Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2016 Org/Blk Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra

And I still ride almost every day at the age of 69.

I am not sure how fast my AWD Tesla Model 3 that I will soon purchase will do 0-60 MPH, but my Zero SR (electric motorcycle)is about 3.0 seconds. Perhaps the fastest bike I own--sure feels like it.

I normally don't lane split until traffic is at near a dead stop. And that's when I am in CA. I rarely have a need for such here in NV, where it is not legal anyway. I have always ridden bikes like a chicken, perhaps that's why I am still alive.

Many of the traffic laws are looser in CA than here in NV. Compare school zones for another example. Here it's 15 MPH even if no kids are in sight and we are fairly likely to get busted at above 17 MPH.

BTW, I lived most of my life in the San Mateo and near by area. Near Hillsdale Blvd. Back in the days when the Bay Meadows race track was still there. I went to all my schools in San Mateo, George Hall, Abbott, Hillsdale High.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
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Generally motorcycles are quicker than most cars.
Many Tesla cars are quicker than most motorcycles.
So we end up with a situation.

You are lucky enough to end up first in line at a stoplight, ready to have fun with that low end torque.
Just as the light is about to change a motorcycle lane-splits and pulls up right alongside your front fender, ready to blast off when the light changes.
Motorcycles are used to being quicker than cars, so they figure they get to take dibs on the light launch, but may not realize that the Tesla beside them is quicker then they are.

So what is the Tesla driver to do?
... Just let the motorcycle take the launch since the rider assumes the car will lag behind and they can quickly merge into the middle of the lane in the intersection?
... Out-launch the motorcycle to retrain the rider that Tesla cars are not slow, and they need to respect the Tesla launch ability?

Maybe Model S & X have less of this problem since they are so wide they don't leave much room for lane splitters?
In my Model 3, I have had this happen multiple times, and I don't know if the motor-cyclist is hoping for a race, or expecting me to yield.
It seems awkward / dangerous. I feel disappointed that I have to give up on my "first in line" opportunity by someone that wants to cut in line.
I understand your conundrum completely, and had the same problem this very evening.
Unfortunately, you simply have to forego your enjoyment and let the motorcycle go ahead. If you accelerate there’s a risk that the motorcycle moves further into your lane and you clip the rider. This would probably put him in hospital or the morgue, and you’d be feeling terrible and be in legal trouble to boot.
On the other hand, if you each have a lane and get a chance for a wink and a nod then I say go for it! Be men! Take risks! Don’t tiptoe to the grave!
 
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Well done for anticipating the danger.
The obvious answer is that you should exercise your responsibility to other road users and not demonstrate your speed.

More generally, the quickness (especially Teslas and other coming performance EVs) and strong regenerative braking of electric cars changes the driver's relationship with vehicles around them. Given the unfamiliarity of other drivers, owners should be wary.
 
On the other hand, if you each have a lane and get a chance for a wink and a nod then I say go for it! Be men! Take risks! Don’t tiptoe to the grave!

Please don’t lump all “men” into the stupid catagory. You’re not risking just yourself. You’re putting other people at risk around you. Take it to the track. You’re more of a “man” if you’re mature enough to resist racing on public roads (ever).
 
How did you get this from what they posted?

Personally I thought it was an interest dilemma of two people who normally expect to be the first off the line.

If the OP was a spoiled, entitled brat they wouldn't be asking the question.

Most people had the same answer I had in letting the motorcyclist decide. They generally have the right away simply because of how vulnerable they are.

I will tell you a similar story, maybe slightly different.
In college, I got a ticket for something dumb (going through a red light when the left turn arrow turned green).
I went to "driver school" to wash the points off my license.
So, in the class, some lady asks the teacher about bicycles. She says the following (without joking):

- Is it ok if I run over a bicycle if he is riding in the road ahead of me and won't get out of the way?

As a road cyclist myself, I had to restrain myself from throwing books, overhead projectors, chairs, other students at her. My god, what are people thinking?

Let the motorcycle go - there is no reason to try to "be first because of the machine I bought allows for it because I paid good money for the extra horsepower to do so."
 
Don’t be so sure. Here’s what mine did at a light this afternoon. Veered left in the middle of the intersection. Guess it’s because the road curved slightly.
Because there are no lane line markings in intersections, and because of the hazards of cross traffic, Tesla specifically and strongly recommends against using Auto Pilot anywhere but freeways and highways with no cross traffic. You started a thread about your video in the Model 3 forum and were advised by several people, including me, about Tesla’s Auto Pilot recommendations. You kindly took the advice in a positive spirit, and I appreciate that. But your post here in this thread needed to be commented on so that those reading it would not try to do what you did; use Auto Pilot in a manner that the Tesla owners manual says should not be done. Thanks.
 
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Yup-read the posts/thread. My opinion still stands. Show me how this is a good practice in general. It is not.

Perhaps today's climate of insisting that a personal opinion can outweigh any amount of factual evidence has more severe consequences than we had thought.

Despite strong opinions to the contrary, the evidence clearly demonstrates that lane splitting is statistically safer for the rider. Those riders doing so tend to also exhibit safer behaviors (better helmets, less alcohol). There are a few exceptions out there (a$$holes are everywhere) but they don't change the statistical findings:

AMA: Study Finds Lane-Splitting Increases Rider Safety
(American Motorcyclist Association June 2, 2015)
. . .
Among the U.C. Berkeley findings:

- Lane-splitting is safe if done in traffic moving at 50 mph or less, and if motorcyclists do not exceed the speed of other vehicles by more than 15 mph

- 69 percent of lane-splitting motorcyclists were exceeding the traffic speed by 15 mph or less speed differentials up to 15 mph were not associated with changes in the frequency of injury

- Compared to riders who were not splitting lanes, lane-splitting motorcyclists were markedly less likely to suffer head injury (9 percent vs. 17 percent), torso injury (19 percent vs. 29 percent) or fatal injury (1.2 percent vs. 3 percent)

- Lane-splitting riders were significantly less likely to be rear-ended than non-lane-splitting riders (2.6 percent vs. 4.6 percent)

- Lane-splitting motorcyclists were more likely to be wearing a full-face helmet than other motorcyclists (81 percent vs. 67 percent)

- Compared to other motorcyclists, lane-splitting riders were more often riding on weekdays and during commuting hours, were using better helmets and were traveling at slower speeds;

- Lane-splitting riders were less likely to have been using alcohol.

"These new findings bolster our position that responsible lane-splitting is a safe and effective riding technique that can be beneficial for riders and motorists alike," Allard said. "Lane splitting eases traffic congestion by taking motorcyclists out of the line of cars and trucks. And the practice increases safety by allowing motorcycle riders to avoid the risk of rear-end collisions in stopped or slow-moving traffic."

Motorcycle lane splitting is a common practice in many countries throughout the world - particularly in the highly urbanized areas of Europe and Asia. Long recognized as a way to alleviate traffic congestion and reduce the risk of crashes, the practice nevertheless remains largely prohibited in the United States, with California currently being the exception.

The UC-Berkeley study is the latest to examine crash data related to lane splitting and follows a similar report issued in October 2014 (same conclusions).

Drive safe, ride safe and watch out for those around you.
 
Don’t be so sure. Here’s what mine did at a light this afternoon. Veered left in the middle of the intersection. Guess it’s because the road curved slightly.

FYI, current AP software is not to be used unless you are on the freeway.

Here is an excerpt from the manual

About AutoSteer
"Note: Autosteer is a BETA feature. If you have purchased the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self-Driving Capability packages, you can use Autosteer to manage steering and speed under certain circumstances.

Autosteer builds upon TrafficAware Cruise Control (see Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on page 61), intelligently keeping Model 3 in its driving lane when cruising at a set speed. Using the vehicle's camera(s), the radar sensor, and the ultrasonic sensors, Autosteer detects lane markings and the presence of vehicles and objects, steering Model 3 based on the lane markings and the vehicle directly in front of you.

Warning: Autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.

Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer on city streets, in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death."
 
Why do these threads always turn into arguments over whether lane splitting is ok? JUST STOP. The OP asked a specific question, stay on topic. Thousands of other threads debating merits and safety of lane splitting are out there... rant over.

I have to agree with others, you need to let the moto go. Just not worth the risk.

I have a P3D+, a 2015 KTM SD1290r, a KTM EXC500, and a Honda Elite 100. I split lanes in all three bikes, and have learned to stay away from Model 3s on my scooter (even before I had the M3) as they are all too quick for it. My bigger bikes can best the M3 (and many on the road can if trying), but keep in mind that unless you are putting the pedal all the way down on every green, you are probably slower.

I do agree with an earlier comment about Autopilot on the highway being an issue. I'm used to riding the left edge of lane 1 on the highway, so as to always leave room for bikes to split between 1 & 2, and autopilot doesn't feel safe to leave on while there are bikes splitting next to you.
 
Yeah, if it was at every light it would be a more real dilemma... But with it only happening occasionally, best to just yield and forget about it.

I suppose in some areas with a higher density of scooters and motorcycles it would be more of an issue.

scoot1.jpg
 
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Perhaps today's climate of insisting that a personal opinion can outweigh any amount of factual evidence has more severe consequences than we had thought.

Interesting. You lead with a study from a surely unbiased point of view...

The studies that I saw show that there are statistically significant reductions in rear-ending accidents, and certain types of injuries suffered from motorcycle drivers. Makes sense. But, increases in motorcycle driver rear-ending another vehicle. So, not safer.

My point is that I think vehicles should be treated equally, given equal respect, and expect to follow the same laws, on the same roads. I am a cyclist, but don't ride on the wrong side of the road, or the sidewalk. Don't blow through stop signs, or red lights. If I wish to be afforded the same rights as another vehicle, I need to act like one. Safer for everyone, not just the cyclist.
 
Sorry- KG M3 didn't say all of that-I did, the part from here down:

Interesting. You lead with a study from a surely unbiased point of view...

The studies that I saw show that there are statistically significant reductions in rear-ending accidents, and certain types of injuries suffered from motorcycle drivers. Makes sense. But, increases in motorcycle driver rear-ending another vehicle. So, not safer.

My point is that I think vehicles should be treated equally, given equal respect, and expect to follow the same laws, on the same roads. I am a cyclist, but don't ride on the wrong side of the road, or the sidewalk. Don't blow through stop signs, or red lights. If I wish to be afforded the same rights as another vehicle, I need to act like one. Safer for everyone, not just the cyclist.

Sorry-didn't mean to imply that he/she did
 
Because there are no lane line markings in intersections, and because of the hazards of cross traffic, Tesla specifically and strongly recommends against using Auto Pilot anywhere but freeways and highways with no cross traffic. You started a thread about your video in the Model 3 forum and were advised by several people, including me, about Tesla’s Auto Pilot recommendations. You kindly took the advice in a positive spirit, and I appreciate that. But your post here in this thread needed to be commented on so that those reading it would not try to do what you did; use Auto Pilot in a manner that the Tesla owners manual says should not be done. Thanks.
Yes agreed, thank you. New owner here so learning my way around AP and just making sure I’m using it properly. Posted here because of the mention of AP from a stop light.