Daniel in SD
(supervised)
They don’t have any features that I don’t have and I didn’t purchase FSD. Can you explain that?
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Lease Returns After Buying FSD
- Thread starter Deans
- Start date
You are wrong. Tesla has not delivered a single FSD feature yet to early AP2 leases, only Enhanced Autopilot features. It seems possible the FSD purchase may thus be a completely wasted one for early lessees.
Do it your way and Tesla gets the free lunch. I'd trust an attorney over Elon Musk and Tesla to do the right thing and give refunds.
The easiest way would be if Tesla just did the right the proactively here but as we know a lot of folks have petitioned Musk and Tesla for FSD refunds over the years and they have denied such requests. I’m sure they know of the request and the logic for it and have chosen to answer in the negative.
Given Tesla’s reluctance to do the right thing in other controversial cases such as the P85D HP where only markets with lawsuits (Norway in that case if I recall) were met with some remedy unfortunately I would have to agree with those that say without a lawsuit Tesla probably won’t budge at all.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
But people have got pennies after a lawsuit. Class action has been shown repeatedly to only fatten the lawfirm and spinkle a few favors to the affected.
Nissan, after the battery fiasco, just gave everyone free charging cards for a few months - IIRC.
ps : No I don't think Tesla will return money when petitioned - but will likely agree to move the FSD paid amount to the next leased/bought vehicle. Note that the paid amount is not the full $6k or whatever - but only the portion that was depreciated as part of the lease.
@EVNow I don’t disagee class action lawsuits usually do not really make things right for the victims but they do punish the offending party and that may help such parties avoid such shenanigans in the future — and that is at least something compared to them walking away competely without consequences.
I wish there was a middle ground. As I said I think Tesla could choose to make this right pre-emptively. So far they have not.
I wish there was a middle ground. As I said I think Tesla could choose to make this right pre-emptively. So far they have not.
Just a friendly reminder that Elon has gone on record in the past about how making people whole would kill the company: We’re trying to make EVs & autonomy more affordable over time. This is the right thing to do. However, we cannot then also retroactively make earlier buyers whole without killing the company.
That is true and I obviously believe Tesla has been aggressively conserving cash for the past year for a reason.
That said, in this case making people whole would have been to simply deliver on the promised Early Access invites to FSD buyers. That would have cost them nothing, but they could not even get that done — instead deleted the announcements quietly...
Or, maybe, not just made an empty promise at all. That would not have come with a PR benefit but at least it would have been the right thing to do.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
So from what I gather Tesla can’t book revenue from FSD until it is delivered. When someone’s lease expires who purchased FSD can they book the revenue? What about when a car with FSD is totaled? In both cases they will never have to deliver FSD to that vehicle.
anthonyj
Stonks
WHY would anyone with FSD turn in their car? Why not just buy it outright? You’re getting an amazing deal. Your car will be able to fully self drive by the end of this year, and next year will be able to turn into an autonomous taxi. Your car will be worth $200,000-$300,000! Elon has always been accurate with timelines. I trust his guidance 100% and so do the financial markets. A lawsuit would be incredibly silly. Tesla is throwing free money at you already.
OMG! I'm so excited this is all happening so soon!
You seriously think this is going to happen? I see you joined in 2018 so maybe you are still new to Tesla's promises but there is no way this is going to happen. Sorry to be the bearer of reality.
anthonyj
Stonks
HankLloydRight
No Roads
... and, speaking as a 2016 Enhanced Autopilot lessee, not even EAP has been fully delivered. I still don't have Enhanced Summon, not to mention that NoA, Autopark, and even the Auto Lane Change don't really function at a level that I actually use them any more.
The result is that I'm buying a new MS
but not even considering the $6k FSD package. If NoA actually worked, like actually 100% worked on Chicago city highways during rush hour, I'd pay $20k just for that. But that's for a different threadThat's a really interesting question. Revenue / loss can't be realized until the product is delivered, but it's probably like a licensing agreement. Like if you rent a movie on Amazon Prime but don't watch it in the 30 days or whatever, they don't give you a refund. So, FSD buyers are licensed to take delivery of the system if/when it becomes available, but they're not entitled to get anything! Someone would have to read the agreement carefully
There is no FSD agreement in any of the contracts I signed when I bought it in 2016.
kkillebrew
Banned
They don’t have any features that I don’t have and I didn’t purchase FSD. Can you explain that?
This is something that has been on my mind for a while. Tesla has been specific that FSD goes with the vehicle not the owner. At some point Tesla will have to produce on the promise of FSD and HW3 upgrades but I do not believe that a lease ending or any lease terms will, or should, have any bearing on Tesla's obligations regarding upgrades.
A lease is simply another way of purchasing the car. As far as Tesla is concerned, and I am no lawyer but I would bet, what should it matter how someone purchases the car? Why should terms and conditions be different because someone chose to make (what I would consider) a poor financial decision by leasing a car for personal use? The car still retains its residual value so if there is a beef it should be taken up with the leasing company and how they compute residual value in these very unique circumstances.
kkillebrew
Banned
So True!!! I can't believe this thread. Every single argument I have read is also true for those who purchased through regular means... This is just too much. People expect Tesla to produce the most sophisticated car in the world within the times frames of their own, short sighted personal mistakes? Has anyone actually considered the ramifications here? If lease owners have a right to a refund, then how does that affect the future value of the car. You leased the car to get cheaper payments, now you want special terms and conditions to boot?
Wake up.
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