TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Lloyd's TS-70 to J1772 conversion

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Lloyd, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    #1 Lloyd, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
    Scott451 mentioned that he was in the process of converting his TS-70 to J1772. I have dissasembled my TS-70 and found that your are able to ADD the J1772 instead of convert it. Note that you can use only one at a time.

    Steps require drilling a hole in the side of the TS-70 to accomodate the additonal cable. You can then mount the J1772 in parallel with the Tesla connector. Certain steps need to be taken:

    1. You need to determine the Comm port for the Ji772. Depending on where you bought it the color will be different. Looking at the face of the J1772 connector Ohm to the lower right terminal and that is the comm line that connects to the blue wire in the TS-70. You can use a wire nut to secure now the blue wire from the TS-70 to the comm wire of the two connectors.

    2. the ground lug is not big enough for a 2nd wire. You will need to install a bigger lug, or dual lug and install it.

    3. The current sensor has two large #4 wires going through it. You will need to clip the tye wrap securing it and that will give just enough space to pass the additional power leads through the current sensor.

    4. You will need to purchase an additional 'gromet" to secure the additional cable. Clipper creek will sell it or you can find it at a local electrical supply.

    I bought a hangar to secure the 2nd cable adjacent to the TS-70.

    Now you have a 70 amp charger that can charge either a J1772 or a Tesla connector without an adapter! I am finishing mine tomorrow, and it should work fine, but I don't have a car to test it with!!
     
  2. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,912
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    Wait. Are they truly wired in parallel, or is there a mechanism in place to ensure only one cable in energized at a time? If the former, that could be a safety hazard. Just checking.

    Be sure to document your process and post photos. =)
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Yes, the unused cable will have hot legs somewhat exposed when charging with the other. The unused cable should have a cap or cover to secure it.
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    #4 Lloyd, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    OK, Here is the procedure to add J1772 to your TS-70 HPC:

    ADD the J1772 instead of convert it. Note that you can use only one at a time.

    Steps require drilling a hole in the side of the TS-70 to accomodate the additonal cable. You can then mount the J1772 in parallel with the Tesla connector.
    Hole.jpg

    Note that the outer hole needs to be larger than the inner hole

    You will need to make a backing plate to secure the inner hole.

    Hole with backing.jpg

    1. You need to determine the Comm port for the Ji772. Depending on where you bought it the color will be different. Looking at the face of the J1772 connector Ohm to the lower right terminal and that is the comm line that connects to the blue wire in the TS-70. You can use a wire nut to secure now the blue wire from the TS-70 to the comm wire of the two connectors. Mine is orange. I then wire nutted the three wires, (orange from J1772, purple from the tesla connector, and Blue from the TS-70) together after removeing the other two connectors.

    Comm original.jpg comms wire nutted.jpg

    2. the ground lug is not big enough for a 2nd wire. You will need to install a bigger lug, or dual lug and install it. Below you will see the dual lug installed. You will later connect the ground wire from the J1772 to the 2nd space.

    dual ground lug.jpg

    3. You will need to purchase an additional 'gromet" to secure the additional cable. Clipper creek will sell it or you can find it at a local electrical supply.

    Wire grommet.jpg


    4. The current sensor has two large #4 wires going through it. You will need to clip the tye wrap securing it and that will give just enough space to pass the additional power leads through the current sensor. This is the really hard part. You will need to remove the PC board to the right for room and use some soap. Once through the sensor, run them to the top of the contactor as shown and connect them with the other two DC leads from the tesla connector. You will need to clip the lugs soldered to the Tesla leads as they are too large to accomodate both with them present.

    current sensor squeeze.jpg


    I bought a hangar to secure the 2nd cable adjacent to the TS-70. Not yet installed, and I will need to fabricate caps to secure the 2nd cable while charging.

    complete.jpg

    Now you have a 70 amp charger that can charge either a J1772 or a Tesla connector without an adapter!
     
  5. tomsax

    tomsax Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    The TS-70 hydra mod seems like a lot of work to build something you hope no one uninformed ever touches, no electrical inspector ever sees, and no insurance adjust ever has a reason to ask about. The alternative is to wait until EVSEs cost less than the current cost of a 70A J connector, which I predict to be less than six months.
     
  6. ChargeIt!

    ChargeIt! Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    619
    So .... :wink: could you charge two EVs simultaneously so long as you don't pull more than 70A ? (Let's say you want to charge a Tesla ( dial down the VDS to 48A ) plus a LEAF (it will pull 16A max).) :smile:

    *There are plenty of LEAFs in the SLO area ... put out a "call" on MyNissanLEAF.com
     
  7. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Tom,

    I don't think this is unsafe, and not difficult. Two rules: 1. Use only one at a time. 2. Dont screw with the unused connector while charging.

    Total conversion including obtaining parts 2.5 hours.
     
  8. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    No,

    One at a time only. The charger would get conflicting signals with two cars connected.

    I was tempted to convert to J1772, but I did not want to loose the Tesla connector.
     
  9. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,912
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    How hard would it be to put a switch in there to select one of the other?
     
  10. S-2000 Roadster

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    636
    #10 S-2000 Roadster, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    The Tesla Roadster does not send any signals to the charger, so there's no conflict possible. The signals travel from the charger to the Roadster, and tell how much current is available. I'm not sure whether I remember the full J1772 specification, but I believe that it does not have any signals coming from the vehicle to the charger, either (if there were, then there'd probably be no way to build a Tesla J1772 adapter, since the Roadster is not generating any signals).

    Update: Nearly everyone has pointed out that I was wrong, because there is a conflict when wiring the passive resistive loads in parallel. My apologies to Lloyd for saying it wasn't possible.

    That was my first thought, too. Unfortunately, the switch would need to handle a great deal of current without arcing or resistance. You'll note that the HPC and Coulomb chargers do not even have a plug in to their power source, presumably because it would be nearly impossible to get a 70 Amp plug and socket (which would need a 90 A rating to carry 70 A continuous).

    In my estimation, creating a switch would require almost as much electronics as building a second charger. Well, the brain could be shared, but the high voltage, high current parts would need to be duplicated in order to allow switching between two cables. I could be wrong, though: maybe there are 90 Amp rated relays out there on the market (that would actually fit in the remaining space in the box, somehow).
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    I think the Roadster imposes a resistance on the pilot signal to tell the EVSE that a vehicle is plugged in.
    If two vehicles did that in parallel, the pilot signal could be affected abnormally and the EVSE may not behave the same as it would with only one vehicle attached.
    Hopefully it would disconnect power as a "double draw" could overload the wiring.

    Another concern is that the unused cable is (I think) energized during charging so the normal shock protections are circumvented.
     
  12. S-2000 Roadster

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    636
    Ah, I believe you are right. So, it's not a complicated signal like the PWM pilot, but it's a detectable load.

    Your other concerns are equally valid.
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,912
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    Part of the standard is that the vehicle puts a load on the pilot signal that the EVSE senses. So it's effectively 2 way communication.
     
  14. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Yes, and thus the reason for applying a protective cap to the unused cable.
     
  15. tomsax

    tomsax Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    #15 tomsax, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    You should really stop commenting on things you don't understand.

    If your statement were true, how would the EVSE know when to turn on the power? The EV puts a resistor and diode across the pilot signal, which lowers the voltage on the waveform. Using this mechanism, the car can say "I'm here, tell me the current limit", "turn on the power" or "turn on the power only if you can also provide ventilation". If two EVs hooked up to the same EVSE, the parallel resistors would drop the voltage into either the ventilation case or an illegal error case.

    Note to self: be less obnoxious when correcting someone's mistake.
     
  16. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,572
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    Essential Supplies - 125A Plugs and Sockets

    I recently bought a couple of suitable 80A switches for £25 each.
     
  17. S-2000 Roadster

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    636
    #17 S-2000 Roadster, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    First of all, I was focused on the term "signal" as defined: "an electrical impulse or radio wave transmitted or received." A resistive load with diode protection is not a signal, per se. But as I said above, TEG was correct in pointing out my oversight with regard to the real possibility for conflict.

    Second, I did qualify my statement with "I'm not sure whether I remember" - this is an interactive discussion, after all. I do not consider a web discussion forum to be the same as writing documentation for publication.

    Finally, be careful about making assumptions about what I understand. If you want to correct my errors, be my guest. Beyond that is apparently insulting.

    Update: I see that Tom is already chastising himself, so I will leave it at that.
     
  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,912
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    I suppose you could have added a J1772 inlet to the other end of that left over Tesla cable, thus making your own adapter cable that you could use at home or take with you.
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,249
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Sorry, Lloyd, but I think that would have been a better 'solution'.
     
  20. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,882
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    #20 Lloyd, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    I checked that, but they don't make one that would connect inline as an aircraft connector. I would have had to make an adapter box to house the inlet. Good thought! Also the Tesla inlet was fairly pricey.

    I could still do that if this does not work. Easy to remove and change!
     

Share This Page