Lucid Air Will Be Better Than Model S, Says Former Tesla Engineer

[BlindPass]

100% agreed. I think once Tesla gets all the factories/plants opened and can upkeep production, we will start to see the changes we really have been asking for. Elon wanted to bring an affordable EV to the mass market, which he has done. I will say I think the CyberTruck could've waited and he could've used that energy and time to button up the 4 models we have now or focus on the Semi more. It was so sad to see that semi video the other day plow through cars like butter. We need the semi on the road more than the truck IMO.

If Elon is as committed to the machine that makes the machine as he states, we’ll see big improvements from Austin.

That said, shifting quality control to the buyer could be a component of the machine that makes the machine. It allows for faster production and less development costs. And if one believes Robo Taxis is the future, cutting costs by lowering the QC/QA burden to a standard of a rental fleet rather than personal car, is a win-win.

 

[BlindPass]

I need the space in the model X only 1% of the time, but not having it is a deal breaker. I need the autopilot only 1% of the time for long trips, but not having it is a deal breaker. I need the supercharger network 1% of the time, but not having that is also a deal breaker.

Tesla sold 80% of EVs in America in the first half of the year. Ignoring that competing EVs have worse range for road trips, I don't see EA building a superior charging network next year when it only caters to 20% or 30% of the market that Tesla does.

Btw, range anxiety isn't false if it's felt. Differences aren't small to the people who care about them.

Yes, I’m familiar with the fanboy rationale.
Most people weight what they need 99% of the time as bigger deal breakers than the 1%. You may not. We’re all irrational from time to time.

Your EA logic buildout is poor. EA has incentive to buildout prior to having more cars sold, just like Tesla continued to aggressively build SC even with minuscule sales. Buying based on the current charging network is a mistake. EA will soon have nearly equitable chargers, with less cars in need. A good combo.

Did someone give you the ICE range anxiety bullet points? It’s like it’s 2013 and I’m discussing my first S again.

 

[PJFW8]

It’s ironic how the sensationalism of range anxiety is now in favor of Tesla. I didn’t anticipate that when having these same discussions with those bias towards ICE.

How often do you travel “a few hundred miles” in a single drive?

EA vs SC are just differing degrees of sub-optimality. If you’ve accepted the inconvenience that Tesla and SC is over a PHEV/ICE, the current slide to EA isn’t a big deal imo, and may be an improvement over the course of ownership.

We travel from South Florida to Minnesota. We’re not doing that on either charging network.

We travel from NC to Wisconsin and Michigan several times each year. No problem with the supercharger network and destination charging. Our frequent trips to Florida are even easier. No reason your Tesla would present a problem.Try a Better Route Planner with an Audi EV. Not reasonable yet, but they will catch-up soon. When Tesla brings out its CCS adapter we will have the benefit of both.

 

[mrmage]

Yes, I’m familiar with the fanboy rationale.
Most people weight what they need 99% of the time as bigger deal breakers than the 1%. You may not. We’re all irrational from time to time.

Your EA logic buildout is poor. EA has incentive to buildout prior to having more cars sold, just like Tesla continued to aggressively build SC even with minuscule sales. Buying based on the current charging network is a mistake. EA will soon have nearly equitable chargers, with less cars in need. A good combo.

Did someone give you the ICE range anxiety bullet points? It’s like it’s 2013 and I’m discussing my first S again.

By definition, deal breakers are not weighted. You're thinking of preferences.

 

[Tam]

It's interesting that it is using Amazon Alexa as its verbal command system, unlike Tesla that uses its own.

The Alexa advantage is: It's been around for 6 years in numerous households (about 100 million devices) and it dominates 70% of US smart speakers (more than Google's). That means Lucid does not have to start from zero and the vocabulary is already so much richer than Tesla's system.

I guess the disadvantage is: Lucid has to be dependent on Amazon who is the owner of Alexa.

 

[BlindPass]

We travel from NC to Wisconsin and Michigan several times each year. No problem with the supercharger network and destination charging. Our frequent trips to Florida are even easier. No reason your Tesla would present a problem.Try a Better Route Planner with an Audi EV. Not reasonable yet, but they will catch-up soon. When Tesla brings out its CCS adapter we will have the benefit of both.

Having charging dictate anything is to be avoided imo. (Plus there’s the superior ride of the our particular road trip car). If you’re a one car house, it may be different, but the delta between our ICE and SC is in general fundamentally smaller than the delta between SC with the S vs EA for Lucid.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I don't see anyone talking about the Lucid V2G (vehicle-to-grid) capability?

Tesla has been resistant so far to provide V2G, mostly considering that some older Model S have free charging,
and may be because of the current 1,000 miles of free Supercharging with the referral program,
and also because Tesla sells Powerwalls.

However with Honda, Lucid, Nissan, and Toyota having V2G on some of their car, I wonder if Tesla would one day provide V2G?
Especially in some countries, like Japan, where V2G can be use as contingency back up for the grid.

(Sep 09, 2020) Nuvve Corporation's Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) Platform Enables New Phase of Project Providing Grid Services in Japan

Indeed, I made an oblique reference to the "Wunderbox" in a earlier post (prodding Tesla to finally release something here). I think it is one of the most interesting features. The "Wunderbox" appears to also enable compatibility with lower voltage DC charging and car to car energy transfer.

 

[BlindPass]

By definition, deal breakers are not weighted. You're thinking of preferences.

That’s false, everything is relative. Deal breakers are preferences, but preferences aren’t necessarily deal breakers.

But if you wish, I’ll rephrase- most people’s deal breakers are not inherent to what they need 1% of the time. We’re all irrational from time to time. Some people just need a Tesla, and will grasp for 1% usage as justification.

 

[mrmage]

That’s false, everything is relative. Deal breakers are preferences, but preferences aren’t necessarily deal breakers.

But if you wish, I’ll rephrase- most people’s deal breakers are not inherent to what they need 1% of the time. We’re all irrational from time to time. Some people just need a Tesla, and will grasp for 1% usage as justification.

Most people would be unhappy with a car that doesn't meet their needs 1% of the time. If that satisfies you, that's fine. We all lower our standards from time to time.

 

[dfwatt]

Ok, but the design is awful as well. Color for instance. Nothing indicates that only 2 options. Same for interior nothing indicates it is only 1 option. Dont make people think you have options when you dont have more.

I have to say I love the technology in the car but I do not like its styling at all. It looks like kind of a version of a hyper-modern taxi that would appear in the second edition of The Fifth Element. Not sure I care much for 21 inch wheels either, at least in my opinion they appear to be too large for the body proportionally. The wheel styling itself on the 21 in is just this side of bizarre. I'm sure it's aerodynamic but good God. Obviously these are small quibbles in terms of the wheels anyway because I'm sure you can get an aftermarket set that has style that you like. But for $170 Grand you shouldn't have to spend any money after purchase to tweak something. The other problem is that in that stratospheric price bracket they're now competing with the Tesla Roadster and I doubt that the Lucid Air performance will equal that – at least not until they come out with the three motor version.

All this of course is totally subjective cuz I'm sure a lot of other people will think of how "it looks so modern let me get one!" For that much money I'd have to like everything about it. So that's actually a deal-breaker.

 

[ICUDoc]

Model S is now long in the tooth and needs a whole lot more than new sheet metal. The hatchback design compromises its structural rigidity, its handling and responsiveness are way below Tesla's Model 3, the Porsche Taycan and possibly below the Lucid as well, it's relatively noisy, and it really still does not have the best space utilization at least compared with the Model 3.

I still love my Model S after having one for 5 years, but you are right, it's ripe for a change. I'm thinking Roadster. But regardless of change, I'm still thinking Tesla. They have problems, but I still like them very much, and they import to Australia SO MUCH CHEAPER than other luxury cars. The Lucid top model will in all likelihood be over 400 000 in Australia, like the Taycan Turbo S. Madness.

 

[jelloslug]

Not successfully. Seriously, every time I have tried the Chademo has been broken.

I actually got one to charge once. It took three tries and the tech on the phone had to get it to start it. It ran for about 15 minutes at 33 kw.

 

[theothertom]

Free for 3 years at EA is a deal but they aren't present at that many locations yet and when the time runs out, watch out! EA has the worst prices.
ALSO
I personally think the car is fugley

EA is present at a lot of locations. Check Plugshare. But yeah, EA is expensive compared to Tesla and EA is not all that reliable.

 

[theothertom]

It's interesting that it is using Amazon Alexa as its verbal command system, unlike Tesla that uses its own.

The Alexa advantage is: It's been around for 6 years in numerous households (about 100 million devices) and it dominates 70% of US smart speakers (more than Google's). That means Lucid does not have to start from zero and the vocabulary is already so much richer than Tesla's system.

I guess the disadvantage is: Lucid has to be dependent on Amazon who is the owner of Alexa.

And who knows what Amazon is going to do with the data....Alexa, set speed to 80mph....

 

[Kipernicus]

I have liked Peter Rawlinson ever since he worked on Model S. I find him to be earnest and sincere.
I just wish they partnered with Tesla to have access to the Supercharger network.
Any info on safety rating of Lucid Air? hopefully as good as Tesla.

 

[Tam]

I have liked Peter Rawlinson ever since he worked on Model S. I find him to be earnest and sincere...

Not very nice words from a former boss:
"Elon Musk@elonmusk
Sep 8

Rawlinson didn’t design Model S. Prototype was done before he joined & he left us in the lurch just as things got tough, which was not cool. He did make some contributions to body/chassis engineering, but not to powertrain, battery, electronics or software."

...I just wish they partnered with Tesla to have access to the Supercharger network...

My guess is it's cheaper for Lucid to leave customers stranded on their own with Electrify America when it comes to charging.

...Any info on safety rating of Lucid Air? hopefully as good as Tesla.

I haven't heard any crash tests for Lucid just yet.

 

[scubastevo80]

Indeed, I made an oblique reference to the "Wunderbox" in a earlier post (prodding Tesla to finally release something here). I think it is one of the most interesting features. The "Wunderbox" appears to also enable compatibility with lower voltage DC charging and car to car energy transfer.

The Wunderbox's ability to allow bi-directional charging is the only interesting note here. I believe there was speculation Tesla was quietly adding this capability by adding switches to its PCS, but I'm not sure if any of the electrical engineers have torn down the onboard charger lately. There are other limiting factors in this equation though - the charger itself needs to be capable of reverse flow as well as the house. Otherwise, you're stuck buying a special cable that charges one Lucid from another, a scenario that probably will almost never happen.

 

[qingshan]

I have liked Peter Rawlinson ever since he worked on Model S. I find him to be earnest and sincere.
I just wish they partnered with Tesla to have access to the Supercharger network.
Any info on safety rating of Lucid Air? hopefully as good as Tesla.

Don't know Peter but glad Tesla keeps the SC system theirs - great to have more ev's but less congestion at chargers without other makes.

I'm sure it's a great vehicle but I'd still be in a volt without all that the m3 is and costs

 

[SUN-day Driver]

Free for 3 years at EA is a deal but they aren't present at that many locations yet and when the time runs out, watch out! EA has the worst prices.

But you are not stuck with EA or their prices. Unlike Tesla, every other EV and charging network uses industry standard plugs and interfaces so you can go anywhere except to a Tesla supercharger. EA has the worst prices but also 350 kW charging stations. After the 3 years of free EA charging I would probably choose EVgo or EV Connect when I have to pay.

 

[MXLRplus]

Folk on this board discussing CCS charging in the US are on par with 16 year old inexperienced boys talking about sex.

Just sayin'