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Ludicrous upgrade for P85D: retained with future battery upgrades?

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,729
4,977
San Francisco
Alright, here's a tricky one. For existing P85D customers who "only" have INSANE and are interested in upgrading to Ludicrous, my understanding is that there are 2 options:

A. Upgrade the contactors/fuses/etc to get Ludicrous mode only, keeping 85 kWh battery capacity
B. Upgrade contactors/fuses AND upgrade to 90 kWh capacity at the same time

If one was to choose option A, but was then interested at some point in the future (1-2 years later) in upgrading battery capacity to say, 95 kWh, would the Ludicrous upgrade be retained?
Also, would you speculate that this will be a cheaper or more expensive option than not upgrading at all now, and waiting to upgrade both power and energy (Ludicrous + 95 kWh) at the same time later?

I know a lot of this is unknown for a fact at this point, I'm just interested in getting different opinions.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,827
5,758
Alright, here's a tricky one. For existing P85D customers who "only" have INSANE and are interested in upgrading to Ludicrous, my understanding is that there are 2 options:

A. Upgrade the contactors/fuses/etc to get Ludicrous mode only, keeping 85 kWh battery capacity
B. Upgrade contactors/fuses AND upgrade to 90 kWh capacity at the same time

If one was to choose option A, but was then interested at some point in the future (2-3 years later) in upgrading battery capacity to say, 95 kWh, would the Ludicrous upgrade be retained?
Also, would you speculate that this will be a cheaper or more expensive option than not upgrading at all now, and waiting to upgrade both power and energy (Ludicrous + 95 kWh) at the same time later?

I know a lot of this is speculation at this point, just interested in getting different opinions.
If you upgrade the capacity you will get a new pack and from a recent thread, it appears all 90kWh batteries already have the ludicrous hardware installed, so it'll mainly be a software thing it seems. This would be similar to what they did for the 40kWh packs and the 60kWh supercharger option.
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,393
Ithaca, NY
If one was to choose option A, but was then interested at some point in the future (1-2 years later) in upgrading battery capacity to say, 95 kWh, would the Ludicrous upgrade be retained?
Also, would you speculate that this will be a cheaper or more expensive option than not upgrading at all now, and waiting to upgrade both power and energy (Ludicrous + 95 kWh) at the same time later?

I know a lot of this is unknown for a fact at this point, I'm just interested in getting different opinions.

If you upgrade the capacity you will get a new pack and from a recent thread, it appears all 90kWh batteries already have the ludicrous hardware installed, so it'll mainly be a software thing it seems.

Tesla could handle things the way you suggest, stopcrazypp, but there's also a chance that for any number of reasons they may not.

For now it seems all the 90 packs have the Ludicrous hardware, but who knows what the future is going to hold in that respect.

Also it would not be outside the realm of possibility for Tesla to say that though MarcG had paid for the hardware upgrade on the 85 battery, since he had not paid for the Ludicrous hardware on the battery he was trading up to, he'd have to pay for it again. Or they could depreciate his upgrade at the same rate they depreciate his pack, so even if the cost of the upgrade remains constant, if they say his pack is 35% used, they could knock 35% off what they consider he has already paid for the Ludicrous, and charge him that amount again.

If Tesla can change what was a $100 ranger / valet fee before people purchased their cars to a fee of many hundreds of dollars or even over a thousand dollars after the fact, with no warning, do you really want to trust them to play fair when it comes to something like this, with a lot more variables involved? I wouldn't.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,827
5,758
If Tesla can change what was a $100 ranger / valet fee before people purchased their cars to a fee of many hundreds of dollars or even over a thousand dollars after the fact, with no warning, do you really want to trust them to play fair when it comes to something like this, with a lot more variables involved? I wouldn't.
In those cases, it was a response to an actual increase in costs to Tesla, whereas it doesn't appear to be the case right now. I do agree with your points that it may be a short term thing that all 90kWh batteries have the Ludicrous hardware installed and that Tesla certainly has an option of setting the cost structure different even in the case it is a software change only.
 
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tstafford

Active Member
Jul 4, 2015
1,039
245
Nashville, TN
Alright, here's a tricky one. For existing P85D customers who "only" have INSANE and are interested in upgrading to Ludicrous, my understanding is that there are 2 options:

A. Upgrade the contactors/fuses/etc to get Ludicrous mode only, keeping 85 kWh battery capacity
B. Upgrade contactors/fuses AND upgrade to 90 kWh capacity at the same time

If one was to choose option A, but was then interested at some point in the future (1-2 years later) in upgrading battery capacity to say, 95 kWh, would the Ludicrous upgrade be retained?
Also, would you speculate that this will be a cheaper or more expensive option than not upgrading at all now, and waiting to upgrade both power and energy (Ludicrous + 95 kWh) at the same time later?

I know a lot of this is unknown for a fact at this point, I'm just interested in getting different opinions.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear of the two options? I'm hungry to learn more about the upgrade.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,090
1,248
So Cal
Tesla is not likely to ever offer battery upgrades. Even 85 -> 90 kWh is prohibitively expensive according to folks who have asked their SvC. Maybe, jut maybe when the gigafactory gets going but I wouldn't count on it.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,729
4,977
San Francisco
Out of curiosity, where did you hear of the two options? I'm hungry to learn more about the upgrade.

Tesla is not likely to ever offer battery upgrades. Even 85 -> 90 kWh is prohibitively expensive according to folks who have asked their SvC. Maybe, jut maybe when the gigafactory gets going but I wouldn't count on it.

During the mid-July announcement Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors, Elon mentioned that P85D owners would be able to upgrade to Ludicrous for $5,000 + labor AND could also choose to upgrade to 90 kWh capacity, but that he wouldn't recommend the latter due to the poor cost/benefit of this option. He recommends to wait until a larger capacity is available so the delta relative to 85 kWh is more significant to justify the cost.

Existing owners can also purchase the pack upgrade, but I wouldn't recommend doing so unless usage is on the edge of current range. On average, we expect to increase pack capacity by roughly 5% per year. Better to wait until you have more time on your existing pack and there is a larger accumulated pack energy difference.
 

ArtInCT

Always Learning
Sep 2, 2014
1,713
433
Southern Connecticut
MarcG:
I do suspect strongly that the Ludicrous mode upgrade would be retained. Ludicrous is a software upgrade assuming the model S has the new contactors and the fuse. It is clear now that all the 90D battery packs are the same part number thus they have the new contactors and the new fuse. I would think that when other new battery packs come out in the future that they too will be so equipped or perhaps equipped with something even better.

BTW MarcG, I wonder how those who leased their P85D's are going to deal with the Ludicrous upgrade. Most are 9 or less months into their leases... ??:confused:

PS: GG asks a GREAT question below.... @Sorka's "review" pf Pete90D's ride, well... it kind of left me still wondering....
 
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gg_got_a_tesla

Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Jan 29, 2010
6,534
769
Redwood Shores, CA
Have any of you P85D owners test-driven the P90DL at a Tesla store? I know @sorka had ridden in Pete90D's car but, wanted to see if any P85D owner on here has done an apples-to-apples comparison?

Am planning on doing so at Burlingame soon if they have a P90DL test drive vehicle.

Back on-topic, yeah, it could be a dicey thing as to whether the L fuse survives a future battery upgrade. Maybe, the L fuse becomes standard in a few years anyway.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,090
1,248
So Cal
During the mid-July announcement Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors, Elon mentioned that P85D owners would be able to upgrade to Ludicrous for $5,000 + labor AND could also choose to upgrade to 90 kWh capacity, but that he wouldn't recommend the latter due to the poor cost/benefit of this option. He recommends to wait until a larger capacity is available so the delta relative to 85 kWh is more significant to justify the cost.

Elon lives in a separate universe. The reality is what folks have heard from SvC and it doesn't sound like the pack upgrade will happen.

FWIW, all 90 kWh packs have the upgraded fuse so I see no reason that it would not be retained in a hypothetical upgrade scenario that is still unlikely to happen IMO.
 

yo mama

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jul 22, 2015
463
164
san jose, CA
Elon lives in a separate universe. The reality is what folks have heard from SvC and it doesn't sound like the pack upgrade will happen.

FWIW, all 90 kWh packs have the upgraded fuse so I see no reason that it would not be retained in a hypothetical upgrade scenario that is still unlikely to happen IMO.
Separate universe or not, guys like tstafford and I were promised ludicrous upgrade for $5,000 plus labor. I have to believe the company will follow through with that. Conversely, I really don't want to upgrade the pack to 90kWh, which should be fine because the two upgrades have absolutely been discussed as separate from one another.
 

skilly

Member
Dec 8, 2014
748
217
Livermore CA
Separate universe or not, guys like tstafford and I were promised ludicrous upgrade for $5,000 plus labor. I have to believe the company will follow through with that. Conversely, I really don't want to upgrade the pack to 90kWh, which should be fine because the two upgrades have absolutely been discussed as separate from one another.

i was waiting for someone to say this. The announcement keeps the battery and the performance upgrade mutually exclusive. One does not require the other. Moreover, he recommends holding off on a battery upgrade because they anticipate a 5% capacity gain YoY.

In terms of the pricing for the performance modification, as much as it pains me that they flirted in the press with this being part of the normal u/g routines (software only) for the P85D, in the end I understand the cost. I can't see them fetching more than $5K for the upgrade on existing P85D customers after they reach that 6month window...the $5K is really in line with any modification one might perform with an ICE engine via tuning modifications and far better at providing substantial results. You can easily pay $7K for an exhaust on an M5 that will make it sound aggressive but give not much more than 10hp/10 ft/pnds of additional torque - hardly worth it.
 

apacheguy

S Sig #255
Oct 21, 2012
5,090
1,248
So Cal
Separate universe or not, guys like tstafford and I were promised ludicrous upgrade for $5,000 plus labor. I have to believe the company will follow through with that. Conversely, I really don't want to upgrade the pack to 90kWh, which should be fine because the two upgrades have absolutely been discussed as separate from one another.

Right, when I said it wouldn't happen I was talking about the battery pack upgrade, not the new fuses.
 

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,850
1,397
Toronto
I can't see them fetching more than $5K for the upgrade on existing P85D customers after they reach that 6month window...
I asked this question in another thread - are we already two months through that six month window? Or does the window start when they actually start doing the upgrades?
 

James Anders

Member
Mar 13, 2014
892
609
Southampton, PA
I suspect this new design fuse will be used in all vehicles. Economies of scale and the simplicity of only one SKU.

Which then begs the question what is one really paying for when you get the Ludricrous upgrade? Yeah, I know it's performance but all that money for a software setting change doesn't sit right with me. With other performance cars the delta increase actually goes (a fair percentage anyway) to more capable hardware.

Here, not so much. Just feels like I am being taken advantage of.
 

AlMc

'When the music is on...you gotta dance' (Go Elon)
Apr 23, 2013
7,349
15,507
Delaware
I suspect this new design fuse will be used in all vehicles. Economies of scale and the simplicity of only one SKU.

Which then begs the question what is one really paying for when you get the Ludricrous upgrade? Yeah, I know it's performance but all that money for a software setting change doesn't sit right with me. With other performance cars the delta increase actually goes (a fair percentage anyway) to more capable hardware.

Here, not so much. Just feels like I am being taken advantage of.

James: Think of it more as 'paying it forward' for the ability of TM to accomplish the mission statement. (always makes me feel better to think of it that way:wink:)

As to the OP/question at hand: I am waiting to upgrade once we get the 120 pack with 'maximum plaid' D120MP
 

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