M3P+ Close But Not Quite There for Track/Performance Use

[Michael2000]

I have read every article and viewed every video I can find on the P3D+ to try to decide if it is suitable for track/performance use. I was interested in buying one. My conclusion is it is not quite there yet. It's a little too early.

1) It doesn't have enough cooling capacity for the batteries and motors for sustained performance use. Track Mode is just trying to create a heat sink by precooling the system that is quickly overcome in a few laps, resulting in power being pulled back. There have been some supercharged ICE cars with the same issue with intercoolers, and they just plain had to get to work on more cooling capacity. Tesla needs to do the same. You should be able to go out on a hot day, and there should be plenty of steady state capacity to dissipate all the heat generated.

2) Track Mode is not a substitute for just having a stability control system that you can turn off. Almost every performance car, and even many non-performance cars have the ability to turn off the stability control. Why not the Model 3? When I read that a seasoned race car driver, Randy Pobst, went off the Willow Streets track in a P3D+ in Track Mode at 90 mph, a mere mortal like me has no chance. I don't need a stability control system to trip me up. I need one I can turn off. and drive within my and the vehicle's limits as I do in other cars.

3) They need to have the ability to turn off regenerative braking on the throttle pedal, instead of increasing it as they did with Track Mode. You can't effectively and smoothly drive one pedal on a track. That's ridiculous. This is another item that tripped up Randy Pobst.

After reading all these report, I get the impression that the people designing the P3D+ have never driven on a track or even aggressively on a back road. It seems like they are trying to over engineer the software so the car will drive itself, and then under engineer the mechanicals.

I see a lot of potential, though. I'm optimistic for the future.

 

[Arpe]

3) They need to have the ability to turn off regenerative braking on the throttle pedal, instead of increasing it as they did with Track Mode. You can't effectively and smoothly drive one pedal on a track. That's ridiculous. This is another item that tripped up Randy Pobst.

How about left foot braking? Then you don't need to move your feet when coming into a corner.

I think it is possible to adapt to this new driving style, but sure it will probably take a few track-weekends to master it. Enjoy the P3D+ when you decide to go for it!
Also, we don't know exactly what Tesla is working on with the Track Mode, maybe they have features which will solve your issues with the current state.

 

[more863-also]

I cannot possibly imagine a scenario where I'd want to turn off ESC on a back country road...? Are you one of those folks that drift across the double yellow?

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm not a racer, but your arguments really sound like you are trying to drive the car as a conventional car. This isn't a conventional car. Things like regenerative braking add a new dimension to the sport, ask the E1 drivers.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Most all street production cars have these same type of issues when run on a race track at racing speeds.

Driving a street car on the track is more a matter of heat management than just driving as fast as you can.

Even my Viper would fade the brakes, boil the fluids, run the cooling into the red zone, over heat the differential over heat the power steering pump. As the motor would overheat, the power would drop off. The tires would overheat and get greasy.

Production cars are not generally race cars. It takes a lot of prep, technology and money to race.

I believe that the Model 3 is pretty competitive with other 4 door production cars in the same price range.

For longer races the gassers still have the edge, but for shorter stints the EVs are making rapid progress.

Some aftermarket suppliers are working on competitive EVs.

For the first time ever, an EV won Pikes Peak. Set a new all time record.

 

[JoshPA]

P3 is no track monster, not even close. Buy an old Miata until you can't improve your skills (which will likely take years). Then upgrade everything on it, spend more years getting faster. Then when you think you are good, buy something like a used Radical.

 

[RyanT]

3) They need to have the ability to turn off regenerative braking on the throttle pedal, instead of increasing it as they did with Track Mode. You can't effectively and smoothly drive one pedal on a track. That's ridiculous. This is another item that tripped up Randy Pobst.

Just move the regenerative braking setting to low. That pretty much makes it coast until you hit the brake like ICE car. Or am I missing something here?

 

[rdunniii]

Tesla is very direct that it is not a track car and that using it on a track or other racing can void the warranty. You just gave Tesla a good reason not to release track mode software at all.

 

[jdmasters]

#3 is ridiculous. Why can you not drive a car with regen on one pedal?

 

[Shizzrock]

Tesla is very direct that it is not a track car and that using it on a track or other racing can void the warranty. You just gave Tesla a good reason not to release track mode software at all.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Ludalicious]

I dont always base my opinion on others reviews... But when I do....

 

[Big Earl]

Moderate yourself. Overdriving the vehicle will cause systems to overheat. Try going for more consistent laps, preserve your momentum and not constantly push the car to its limits. You might increase your lap times slightly but you’ll be able to run longer. Every lap doesn’t need to be a qualifying lap.

 

[MP3Mike]

2) Track Mode is not a substitute for just having a stability control system that you can turn off. Almost every performance car, and even many non-performance cars have the ability to turn off the stability control. Why not the Model 3? When I read that a seasoned race car driver, Randy Pobst, went off the Willow Streets track in a P3D+ in Track Mode at 90 mph, a mere mortal like me has no chance. I don't need a stability control system to trip me up. I need one I can turn off. and drive within my and the vehicle's limits as I do in other cars.

Track mode is currently in development and hasn't been released. I'm pretty sure they said that there was a flaw that randy hit that caused the problem. I would think it would be much better by the time they release it to the public.

And as far as #1 I saw at least one magazine say that most ICE cars suffer from heat slowdown during extended track usage, some worse than the Model 3.

 

[kbecks13]

3) They need to have the ability to turn off regenerative braking on the throttle pedal, instead of increasing it as they did with Track Mode. You can't effectively and smoothly drive one pedal on a track. That's ridiculous. This is another item that tripped up Randy Pobst.

I agree with this but not for the reason you think! Regen results in additional heat input to the motors/inverter and results in your reaching the "heat limiter" sooner than if you could turn it off. This was confirmed by multiple people in Model 3's (various models) on track recently where we could go longer if regen was turned down to Low from Standard.

In terms of braking and slowing you down after you let off, i don't think it's really that big of a deal - you just let off the brake a touch sooner than you normally would (a TINY bit).

Overall though, i agree that the P3D isn't quite ready to be a track car. I would also like to see the cooling system last almost indefinitely and also want a stiffer factory suspension, it's a darn Performance car after all

Now that Tesla has removed the Performance package (for now), i hope they will be coming out with a REAL racing package in the future.

 

[MP3Mike]

This was confirmed by multiple people in Model 3's (various models) on track recently where we could go longer if regen was turned down to Low from Standard.

I haven't seen this, can you point to where they talk about it? How much difference does it make?

Now that Tesla has removed the Performance package (for now), i hope they will be coming out with a REAL racing package in the future.

No they haven't. The performance package is just included in every Performance Model 3 now. (Like it or not.)

 

[kbecks13]

I haven't seen this, can you point to where they talk about it? How much difference does it make?

I mean, i am one of "them" but this was during Tesla Corsa 2 weeks back (videos not out yet, coming soon). I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, maybe instead of 3 laps you can go 4 (~2 minute laps, heavy throttle usage).

No they haven't. The performance package is just included in every Performance Model 3 now. (Like it or not.)

For now, but i guarantee that "package" verbiage will eventually disappear and those current options will just become part of the base Performance car (they already are mandatory!). This then frees up a "package" for actual performance (i doubt Tesla wants to confuse people by having multiple performance packages). To be clear i'm not saying they will get rid of the options, just the title that it currently has.

 

[Zoomit]

For now, but i guarantee that "package" verbiage will eventually disappear and those current options will just become part of the base Performance car

I believe if/when they do this, they’ll also be obligated to reflect a revised EPA range that includes the wheels/tires. I suspect they’re looking to avoid acknowledging that it won’t typically go 310 mi with the fun parts installed.

 

[Michael2000]

I'll just reply to a few of the comments.

Believe it or not, you can drive a car in control and safely at speed without stability control. Yes, it does take skill, but that's the whole point.

You can't drive a track with one pedal regen only. Not enough braking.

Track oriented cars these days, such as the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, M3, 911 etc., don't overheat on the track. Those days are over with their performance versions. They have bigger brakes, trans coolers, diff coolers, engine oil coolers, bigger radiators. You can't run consistent laps if your Model 3 P overheats in 3-4 laps.

Track Mode puts the regen at 0.3 g's. Maybe they will allow you to turn it off or make it adjustable in the final release version (hoping). There should also be a setting, that specifies regen only on brake pedal, too.

I don't see anything here insurmountable. Tesla just needs to raise the bar a bit, and do some more engineering. I would also like to see the Performance version visually set itself apart from the standard model more. An M3 really stands out compared to a standard 3 series.

 

[Big Earl]

I hope Tesla never goes to regen on the brake pedal. I haven't driven a car yet that had confidence-inspiring braking performance with a blended brake pedal.

 

[alsetym]

Track oriented cars these days, such as the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, M3, 911 etc., don't overheat on the track. Those days are over with their performance versions. They have bigger brakes, trans coolers, diff coolers, engine oil coolers, bigger radiators. You can't run consistent laps if your Model 3 P overheats in 3-4 laps.

That's not really true. I read a great article last week about the Mustang PP2, which overheats the differential in a couple of laps. (for your reading pleasure 2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Package Level 2 Lightning Lap Results for 2018) That's kinda the same thing. Corvettes melt brake pads and 911's chew tires, STI's starve oil if you corner too hard, EVO's flash a warning on the screen telling you the transmission is going into slow change mode... Every car I've driven on the track starts pulling timing or dropping boost after a couple laps and on certain tracks brakes are an issue...just unlike a tesla the screen doesn't tell you! The track is like a torture test for cars. There is a reason most track sessions are only around 20 minutes! The only cars that can typically handle the abuse are simple low powered, non-turbo version with big brake kits (the answer being miata, regardless of the question). Of course their hot lap will not be as fast. The problem is OEM's package more power into their performance packages (for obvious reasons) and that is where you get the heat issues. If the P3D just had the higher power rear motor and no front motor, it would run longer, be slightly slower, and you wouldn't notice the slow down as much...but then it wouldn't be as fun off the line! I'm sure the aftermarket will make a kit to shove in a bigger radiator in place of that pesky Frunk.

The usual solution is to not overdrive the car, do your 20 minute session. towards the end of the day get a good couple hot laps in. enjoy life!