M3P VS BMW I4 M50

[tm1v2]

@holmgang Tesla key fobs have a frunk button. If you're okay carrying around a key fob, which it sounds like you are since those cars you're comparing with require one, that should solve the frunk access problem for you. Our old RWD S has a huge frunk that we use all the time. It's easy to open by reaching into my pocket and finding the frunk button by feel, no need to take the fob out of my pocket. The Model 3/Y key fob looks like the same shape and controls, should be just as easy. (Disclaimer: I've not used a Model 3/Y fob.)

Model 3/Y Key Fob

Locking and unlocking your Tesla vehicle has never been easier. Keep your key fob in your pocket and simply pull on the door handle for easy entry. Same with the trunk. Your key fob is automatically enabled when you pair it with your vehicle. Includes: 1x key fob Model 3 Adding and Removing...

shop.tesla.com

Personally I love *not* having a fob in my pocket for our Model 3. The combination of highly reliable Bluetooth + NFC PAAK plus key card backup in my wallet is great, it's one of several Tesla reimaginations of how a car should operate that works brilliantly for me. I always keep the key card in my wallet of course, I would never purposefully rely solely on my phone, but that's fine because it's just a thin card in my wallet. All the non-Tesla PAAK implementations that still use fobs as the backup COMPLETELY miss the point of PAAK!

That said I agree the current Tesla PAAK implementation makes frunk access more awkward than with the fob. Instead of a possibly ugly-looking button on the car though, how about another NFC touchpoint, which would open the frunk instead of unlocking the car? It could go on top of the front bumper, right in front of the hood. I think that would be ideal to me.

@santua too.

 

[Zcd1]

Here's what "CAR" magazine (UK) has to say on the topic:

BMW i4 vs M4 and Tesla Model 3 group test review

i4 vs. TM3 tldr; "Which one? Tough call; the i4 is lovely to drive on the road, and soothing to live with. It’s an easier car to adapt to. The Tesla is a true disruptor. It’s more divisive and its screen-is-all interface fixes some things that weren’t broken. But the Model 3 is the bigger step forward for car-kind and the more desirable product overall."

 

[tm1v2]

This quote from that CAR mag test struck me: "M division may not yet offer an electric car but BMW does"

What the heck does "M50" mean if it's not an M car? Are they saying it's a badge job, like kids putting Type R badges on their regular Civic? Should I not expect BMW M driving dynamics from a car badged "M50?" How am I even supposed to know that?

The "M" part of the "M50" and "M4" badges looks the same to me. Is there some subtle difference I'm missing to recognize which was actually tuned by the M division, and which is just a badge? Why dilute the M brand with cars M didn't tune?

 

[Zcd1]

This quote from that CAR mag test struck me: "M division may not yet offer an electric car but BMW does"

What the heck does "M50" mean if it's not an M car? Are they saying it's a badge job, like kids putting Type R badges on their regular Civic? Should I not expect BMW M driving dynamics from a car badged "M50?" How am I even supposed to know that?

The "M" part of the "M50" and "M4" badges looks the same to me. Is there some subtle difference I'm missing to recognize which was actually tuned by the M division, and which is just a badge?

I'm guessing you're just throwing that out there to spur conversation, because surely you know about all of the "M-Line" BMW products that aren't true "M-cars"?

M240i, M340ix-Drive, M550i, etc. etc....

 

[Brou]

This quote from that CAR mag test struck me: "M division may not yet offer an electric car but BMW does"

What the heck does "M50" mean if it's not an M car? Are they saying it's a badge job, like kids putting Type R badges on their regular Civic? Should I not expect BMW M driving dynamics from a car badged "M50?" How am I even supposed to know that?

The "M" part of the "M50" and "M4" badges looks the same to me. Is there some subtle difference I'm missing to recognize which was actually tuned by the M division, and which is just a badge?

Their cars with "M" and one number are the "true" M cars. Mercedes' and Audi also make "lite" versions of their performance models. For example, there's the C43 and C63. Only the 63 is considered a true AMG car. On the Audi side, they offer S and RS versions of their vehicles. The RS versions are their top of the line performers, while the S models are better performers than their base models but not as good as the RS.

 

[Bouba]

The i4 is a proof of concept design...like Elon’s original roadster...a production car with an electric drivetrain...the M3 is the culmination of that research and the years of investment and accumulated knowledge and know how plus 100% commitment. Why would anyone want an experimental car from a company that had to be pushed into putting the first toe in the water...and is very reluctant to put the second toe in...

 

[clerks]

Here's what "CAR" magazine (UK) has to say on the topic:

BMW i4 vs M4 and Tesla Model 3 group test review

i4 vs. TM3 tldr; "Which one? Tough call; the i4 is lovely to drive on the road, and soothing to live with. It’s an easier car to adapt to. The Tesla is a true disruptor. It’s more divisive and its screen-is-all interface fixes some things that weren’t broken. But the Model 3 is the bigger step forward for car-kind and the more desirable product overall."

This exact quote gave me pause - 15 minutes after putting down a deposit on the M50. Good thing I have 6 months to think about it. I do think it is really a testament to Tesla that a 4+ year old platform is more fun to drive than a 2022 BMW. The M3P really is a go kart on wheels. If they could just up the ante on the interior, the BMW would probably be an afterthought.

 

[thesmokingman]

 

[tm1v2]

I'm guessing you're just throwing that out there to spur conversation, because surely you know about all of the "M-Line" BMW products that aren't true "M-cars"?

M240i, M340ix-Drive, M550i, etc. etc....

@Zcd1 No, I haven't followed BMW or really any ICE cars closely for almost a decade. I basically dropped cars as a hobby completely for many years, only starting to take it up again just recently with the purchase of our M3P late last year.

Now that you say it, I have noticed all those M-badged non-M versions, but I thought they were basically M suspension / dynamics without the M engine. That seems like a nice option to offer since even "regular" engines from BMW (and like-priced competitors) have huge power these days - if I were buying one, I'd happily just spec the M suspension and save money by "settling" for a 550i engine!

But the i4 M50 is its own model separate from any non-M i4. And the i4 M50 has extra power, but apparently not M suspension / handling. So maybe I have the meaning of the tacket-on M badge for cars like the M550i wrong...is there any consistency to what it means? The i4 M50 is clearly separated from the regular i4 by more power with dual motors (even if the handling isn't really M tuned). What separates an M550i from a 550i? I assumed the "50i" suffix on both meant the same non-M engine (going by BMW's past naming conventions).

 

[tm1v2]

Going back to the rest of the CAR mag comparison, everything they wrote about how the Model 3 drives and feels rings true to me. Same for their take on how BMW M cars were always best as a balance of daily-friendly comfort with nice sporty edge. Which basically describes all the best BMWs I've driven - a great mix of daily driver comfort plus driving fun. Not the very best at either as the best singularly-focused cars, but a really great balance of the two roles / uses.

So I'm inclined to CAR's take on the BMWs in their comparison. And it makes sense they like the Model 3 in general, because even though it feels nothing like a BMW, it too offers a very nice mix of daily driving combined with sporty fun.

 

[Brou]

@Zcd1 No, I haven't followed BMW or really any ICE cars closely for almost a decade. I basically dropped cars as a hobby completely for many years, only starting to take it up again just recently with the purchase of our M3P late last year.

Now that you say it, I have noticed all those M-badged non-M versions, but I thought they were basically M suspension / dynamics without the M engine. That seems like a nice option to offer since even "regular" engines from BMW (and like-priced competitors) have huge power these days - if I were buying one, I'd happily just spec the M suspension and save money by "settling" for a 550i engine!

But the i4 M50 is its own model separate from any non-M i4. And the i4 M50 has extra power, but apparently not M suspension / handling. So maybe I have the meaning of the tacket-on M badge for cars like the M550i wrong...is there any consistency to what it means? The i4 M50 is clearly separated from the regular i4 by more power with dual motors (even if the handling isn't really M tuned). What separates an M550i from a 550i? I assumed the "50i" suffix on both meant the same non-M engine (going by BMW's past naming conventions).

Their M-lite vehicles add power over the lower tiered. The 550 no longer exists. The 540 has a 330ish hp 6 cylinder turbo or twin turbo--I forget. The M550 has a twin turbo V8 that makes over 500 hp. The M5 also has a twin turbo V8, but it makes around 600 hp.

In the same class from Audi you have the A6 making 335 hp. Then the S6 making 440+. And the top spec'd RS6, which makes around 600 hp. The extra letters add hp.

 

[Zcd1]

This exact quote gave me pause - 15 minutes after putting down a deposit on the M50. Good thing I have 6 months to think about it. I do think it is really a testament to Tesla that a 4+ year old platform is more fun to drive than a 2022 BMW. The M3P really is a go kart on wheels. If they could just up the ante on the interior, the BMW would probably be an afterthought.

The i4M50 is a nice car - fast and relatively comfortable, but it's not happy being really pushed. So in that way, the nomenclature is perfect - it's not at all a real M-car.

 

[tm1v2]

Their M-lite vehicles add power over the lower tiered. The 550 no longer exists. The 540 has a 330ish hp 6 cylinder turbo or twin turbo--I forget. The M550 has a twin turbo V8 that makes over 500 hp. The M5 also has a twin turbo V8, but it makes around 600 hp.

In the same class from Audi you have the A6 making 335 hp. Then the S6 making 440+. And the top spec'd RS6, which makes around 600 hp. The extra letters add hp.

Ahhh comparing to Audi S vs RS it makes sense now, thank you! The Audi "RS" vs "S" naming is more clear, but okay, naming aside I feel like I understand better what to expect from a non-M M car.

In that sense it sounds like the i4 M50 fits the non-M M mold i.e. Audi S mold pretty well actually. A good chunk of extra power, and a bit of extra sportiness but nothing hard-edged in any way. Shame about the M50's nannies never really getting out of the way...I recall Audi S4's being perfectly happy to let you fully explore their limits and hoon around, even if dynamically they weren't much more involving than a sport suspension optioned A4 (besides the extra power).

To be fair Tesla has the nannies issue too for non-Performance/Plaid Model 3 and S. Have to pay up for the performance model just to get full control of the car.

Bring us a real "M" EV BMW!

 

[Theone8181]

I find you tend to get more standard on the M versions rather than the Mlite versions. At least tesla have the options list pretty simple.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Yeah, I'm waiting on the BMW ev4 M Comp, ground up EV platform, frunk, ~500-800+ lbs of weight loss, another 100-150HP, same general interior design but nuke the transmission tunnel, remove some of the exterior ICE BS. 0-60 in 2.8s, 1/4 in under 10.5 at 130, lots of driving dynamics control, will do 350 miles, fast charging ...

For around $70K.










HAHAHAHAHA, no, wait, *catches breath*, HAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, I realize an M flavor is going to push $100K, but I'd take the ev4 M-Sport on the same platform, for the price of the current.

 

[Kvitravn]

Arguably most important to put in there is a portable jump starter, since the frunk, but not the trunk or car interior is accessible if your 12v battery dies.

I work in a mid-size company where the most common vehicle is a Model 3 (consulting in Norway) so since 2018 there have been hundreds of Tesla owners in our inevitable nerdy Slack channel. I've hear about peoples experiences in exceeding detail but never once heard of a 12V failure. So no, I'm not very concerned about that

Took out my E46 M3 for the first time in a few months since buying my model 3 p. Still very much an enjoyable car in a very different way from the model 3. Even after getting used to an EV, there's something about a cammed and airbox'd E46 M3 screaming away at >8000 RPM

Sounds great! Can imagine that CSL-like howl is intoxicating

I don't get why driving a Tesla somehow mans we don't appreciate enthusiast machinery. It's just a different expeience. Daily driving a Tesla saves mileage and cash so you can spend more on pleasure driving your classic imho.

 

[Bouba]

Some want a car....others choose a badge...

 

[Knightshade]

I work in a mid-size company where the most common vehicle is a Model 3 (consulting in Norway) so since 2018 there have been hundreds of Tesla owners in our inevitable nerdy Slack channel. I've hear about peoples experiences in exceeding detail but never once heard of a 12V failure. So no, I'm not very concerned about that

FWIW the first Model 3 deliveries to Europe were in Feb 2019, not 2018...

The First European Customer Takes Delivery Of A Tesla Model 3! - CleanTechnica

The first European customer has taken delivery of his Tesla Model 3 today after what felt like an endless stream of delays since it was first announced nearly 3 years ago.

cleantechnica.com

So the oldest Model 3s you'd see over there are only a few months past 3 years old, which is about when they start to fail in general, so not shocked you haven't seen it yet.

(it happens more often in HOT climates- and you can find plenty of owners right here on the forums who've had theirs die in 2-3 years)

In theory the car should warn you when a 12v problem is developing-- in reality it sometimes doesn't.


Regardless of all that, the point was that a jump starter is the only thing that needs to be in the Frunk, since that's the only storage you can still access with a dead 12v battery.

(having a jump starter is nice as a good Samaritan too of course since the Tesla 12v isn't strong enough to jump another car if you find someone in need- but trunk storage would work just as well for THAT purpose)

 

[Adam3]

 

[Theone8181]

FWIW the first Model 3 deliveries to Europe were in Feb 2019, not 2018...

The First European Customer Takes Delivery Of A Tesla Model 3! - CleanTechnica

The first European customer has taken delivery of his Tesla Model 3 today after what felt like an endless stream of delays since it was first announced nearly 3 years ago.

cleantechnica.com

So the oldest Model 3s you'd see over there are only a few months past 3 years old, which is about when they start to fail in general, so not shocked you haven't seen it yet.

(it happens more often in HOT climates- and you can find plenty of owners right here on the forums who've had theirs die in 2-3 years)

In theory the car should warn you when a 12v problem is developing-- in reality it sometimes doesn't.


Regardless of all that, the point was that a jump starter is the only thing that needs to be in the Frunk, since that's the only storage you can still access with a dead 12v battery.

(having a jump starter is nice as a good Samaritan too of course since the Tesla 12v isn't strong enough to jump another car if you find someone in need- but trunk storage would work just as well for THAT purpose)

Is your plan that a jump starter keeps you mobile (not sure how long it would last, or if you'd keep it on).