Marked up resale model 3s showing up on eBay

[Pinot.Noir]

It's up to $55,100 now. Say what you want about the misleading $0.99 starting price, but from what I can see the other 3's on eBay have zero bids, so his method is effective.

I hope these bidders know they will be paying sales tax on top of the final price. My out the door price was $57,800 so the bid price is getting close. I'm configured the same so our price should be identical.

 

[run-the-joules]

It's up to $55,100 now. Say what you want about the misleading $0.99 starting price, but from what I can see the other 3's on eBay have zero bids, so his method is effective.

I hope these bidders know they will be paying sales tax on top of the final price. My out the door price was $57,800 so the bid price is getting close. I'm configured the same so our price should be identical.

You didn't get autopilot? HEATHEN! BURN THE WITCH

 

[Zorg]

That will establish market price

 

[Pinot.Noir]

You didn't get autopilot? HEATHEN! BURN THE WITCH

Nope, no AP. My wife would never use it, so why bother.

 

[run-the-joules]

Nope, no AP. My wife would never use it, so why bother.

My girlfriend claims the same. That's a hypothetical though, as if I'm going to let her drive. That said, I'll probably buy a Model Y when those become a thing, with the expectation that she'll be the one to use it, but that'll have EAP as well because it'll still be my car and I don't buy cars without TACC…

 

[McRat]

I'm just curious, how does what someone does with the car they own result in you having to wait longer for your car? Are you saying Tesla would build cars faster if the guy that took delivery 3 weeks ago chose to keep his car instead of choosing to sell it? What am I missing?

Also, how does it void the tax credit? Is there something that says the tax credit is void if you choose to sell your car after you bought it? Seems like the original owner would still get the tax credit unless they're a dealer, where you're not supposed to purchase with the intent to sell. A rule intended against dealers using up the tax credits. But there's no rule against a non-dealer buying the car, driving it, then deciding you don't want it and then choosing to sell it.

Also, where did you get the information that these are all employees? Based on VINs of each one, they are not early number employee cars.Or that they're owners that bought them to flip like that? Did you ask these sellers what they were thinking before writing your post full of accusations?

And, your saying these guys didn't have to wait in line too? Did Tesla allow these guys to skip to the front of the line and buy a bunch of cars? All the VINs are over 1,000. Employee cars were under 1,000 numbered cars. If they're existing Tesla owners, they had to wait in line just like everyone else. Being that Tesla chose not to put this car in it's stores, nor let anyone drive them or get inside of them before making the commitment to buy one, isn't it just possible that the Tesla supporters (existing owners) made reservations on blind faith for Tesla only to get the car and decide it's not for them? The Model S & X are far superior cars in terms of features. For someone used to a $100,000 car, chances are the Model 3 with a beyond minimalist approach, isn't going to satisfy all high end car owners. Maybe they took a chance and decided "I tried it, not for me, sell it and move on". Knowing that there were 500,000 reservations that they'd likely be able to get their after tax money out of the car, so it was worth the risk to purchase it without a single full road test having been done on the car. Kind of a no risk opportunity to try the car out and see if you like it. Yes, that's a luxury that doesn't exist with most cars, but this isn't "most" cars. Kind of tough to determine if you really will be happy with a car when you don't have the opportunity to even sit in one, let alone not be able to drive it first.

Maybe should check the facts before posting a bunch of accusations that are false. Just a suggestion.

Hopefully enough people contact State/Fed EV rebate programs and alert them to potential tax cheats (EV rebates come from taxes) that at least a few get caught.

Not a fan of tax cheats. I'm not saying that everybody flipping EVs is filing for rebates illegally, but I'd be surprised if the majority of flippers are upstanding citizens.

To answer your question about how does it affect line waiters, it allows people to buy their Model 3 without waiting in line. So that EV that was flipped is not parked in a line waiters driveway.

Flipping hard-to-get cars always exists. What makes this different is the taxes and the fact folk put their money up front. You can't put money down on a 2019 Corvette only to have somebody else pay more and get your car.

If you flip a car without defrauding the tax laws, all the more power to you. If you want me to subsidize your theft of taxes, you should run for office.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

My girlfriend claims the same. That's a hypothetical though, as if I'm going to let her drive.

By getting her the 3 any desire to drive my S is taken away. If FSD actually becomes a reality in the next few years I can always pay the extra and upgrade. As of now, I rarely use AP in the S because it's so much fun to drive!

 

[TEG]

I think the vast majority of us (like 99.99% of us) are buying the car to keep it and drive it until our own individual preferences and style make it time to trade in for a different car or send to the junk heap at the end of its life. Some people keep a car for a year, and some drive it until the wheels are ready to fall off. But I think that fewer than one out of a thousand of us placed our order with the intent to try to flip the car for a profit.

I think the percentage of people that reserved with intent to flip/scalp is much higher than you think.
The refundable nature of the deposit makes it easy to take the risk and then change your mind later if the mark-up market isn't there.

 

[run-the-joules]

By getting her the 3 any desire to drive my S is taken away. If FSD actually becomes a reality in the next few years I can always pay the extra and upgrade. As of now, I rarely use AP in the S because it's so much fun to drive!

That's fair enough. The main reason I'm joining the cult is for autopilot, because my commute is going to drive me (edited to add: "even more") insane. The idea of a Tesla without autopilot for my uses is like… a burger without meat. Or a pizza without crust. Or a ski trip without snow

 

[Austindude]

Let's have some fun and turn this flipping a Model 3 for profit idea on its head.

Assume you are a late reservation holder and you are convinced you will not be eligible for any federal tax credit by the time you take delivery. Now what if Tesla had a special "loyalty" program (forget about practicalities or legalities) where for an additional $10,000 over the current price as configured you could jump towards the front of the line (and thus be eligible for the full $7500 tax credit) on the purchase of a Model 3, would you take advantage?

If not, is there any additional dollar amount above the tax credit you would pay to move ahead in the line?

 

[Pinot.Noir]

That's fair enough. The main reason I'm joining the cult is for autopilot, because my commute is going to drive me (edited to add: "even more") insane. The idea of a Tesla without autopilot for my uses is like… a burger without meat. Or a pizza without crust. Or a ski trip without snow

Sounds like you have a worse commute than I do....Livermore to Oakland. Which has gotten so much worse in the last few years. The opportunity to ride in the carpool lane for free has had more impact to me than AP.

 

[Canuck]

I’ll sell my model 3 for a profit if someone is willing to pay for it. Absolutely nothin wrong with that. It’s exactly the same as concert tickets,

Right - every man for himself and let's milk everything in this world for all we can -- capitalism on acid! -- that's the society we want to live in -- profit over everything else!

I don't think I'd ever see a concert if I had your view. I went to Seinfeld recently in Abbotsford and could have made a nice profit on my tickets but the concert was great and I don't share your view that there's nothing wrong with flipping tickets for a profit. I see a lot wrong with it and if I were King for a day I'd make it illegal to flip concert tickets. The artist sets the price and people decide whether or not to pay that price from their hard earned money. To allow pond dwelling slime in the form of human leeches in between me and that artist, whose sole purpose in life is to stand in line, or create bots, to get between me and the artist for their cut for doing nothing but exploiting the system is not capitalism to me -- because any good capitalist will tell you that this is a form of corruption that must be weeded out of capitalism to make capitalism work properly and not be exploited. Fortunately, we are starting to do that here:

BC NDP says crackdown on scalper bots is in the works

But of course we can't pass laws to prevent all abuses of capitalism. If someone bought a Model 3 in good faith, and decided they want to sell it soon after because it's not for them, then that's fine by me. If someone waited in line to flip one, I don't think there's much we can do about it except for us to collectively as a society shame that person because they are not only adding nothing to society but they are making it worse for those of us who work hard and don't look for loop holes where we can screw our fellow man or woman. They are the equivalent of human leeches -- aka scalpers -- and I will tell them that to their face and shame the like we should do to bullies.

People like you who say there's "absolutely" nothing wrong with what they are doing are, in my view, the enemies of capitalism. This is aside from the fact that you fail to see the harm they do when people like my daughters can't get tickets to concerts unless they pay a premium because they were snatched up by people who don't even know the artist but know how to exploit a system and how get between an artist and their fans to extort money. You say "fine" and I say "shame on you!".

Just because a system can be exploited doesn't mean it should be and it certainly doesn't mean there's "absolutely" nothing wrong with it. It's akin to the "capitalism" they now have in Russia which is not capitalism to me --- it's corruption!

 

[run-the-joules]

Sounds like you have a worse commute than I do....Livermore to Oakland. Which has gotten so much worse in the last few years. The opportunity to ride in the carpool lane for free has had more impact to me than AP.

Mine’s not even THAT bad really, it’s just aggravating because I know it could be so much better.

Let's have some fun and turn this flipping a Model 3 for profit idea on its head.

Assume you are a late reservation holder and you are convinced you will not be eligible for any federal tax credit by the time you take delivery. Now what if Tesla had a special "loyalty" program (forget about practicalities or legalities) where for an additional $10,000 over the current price as configured you could jump towards the front of the line (and thus be eligible for the full $7500 tax credit) on the purchase of a Model 3, would you take advantage?

If not, is there any additional dollar amount above the tax credit you would pay to move ahead in the line?

Let’s do it differently and I’ll answer specifically for me. I’ve got a “Jan-Mar” estimate, and if asked what I would do to be able to configure and lock in my order today? An extra $1k wouldn’t even be a question, that’s easy. $1,500? I suppose. Past that it’d start getting a bit iffy. $2k would mean I’d want assurances on paint perfection and build quality, and not getting anything like the “end of quarter specials” we know that Tesla has dumped on people before.

 

[TEG]

I wonder if any of the "line-waiters" were "stand-ins" ?

Waiting in Line for a Living

The Growing Market for Getting Paid to Wait in Line

Professional Line Sitter: Make $25 an Hour Waiting in Line

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/new-app-lets-lazy-people-pay-strangers-to-stand-in-line-for-them/

 

[EVNow]

When Tesla gives some folks primacy when it comes to selling cars - it should come with some strings attached. Like no resale for 1 year.

Afterall, the rational was employees would be far more amenable to dealing with issues and readily give feedback. Not flip the car for profit.

 

[run-the-joules]

After all, the rationale was employees would be far more amenable to dealing with issues and readily give feedback. Not flip the car for profit.

Was that ever explicitly said, or just what people took it to mean? I've always interpreted it as "thanks for your money when we needed it, here's priority". Granted, that never really made sense because people who bought used cars privately also get priority, but vOv

 

[Cricket88]

If someone waited in line to flip one, I don't think there's much we can do about it except for us to collectively as a society shame that person because they are not only adding nothing to society but they are making it worse for those of us who work hard and don't look for loop holes where we can screw our fellow man or woman. They are the equivalent of human leeches -- aka scalpers -- and I will tell them that to their face and shame the like we should do to bullies.

People like you who say there's "absolutely" nothing wrong with what they are doing are, in my view, the enemies of capitalism. This is aside from the fact that you fail to see the harm they do when people like my daughters can't get tickets to concerts unless they pay a premium because they were snatched up by people who don't even know the artist but know how to exploit a system and how get between an artist and their fans to extort money. You say "fine" and I say "shame on you!".

Just because a system can be exploited doesn't mean it should be and it certainly doesn't mean there's "absolutely" nothing wrong with it. It's akin to the "capitalism" they now have in Russia which is not capitalism to me --- it's corruption!

Bitter much? There is no exploitation of the system here. Everyone paid the same $1000 deposit using the same exact methods by either waiting in person or reserving online. Reason of purchase and what they decide to do with their commodity is completely irrelevant.

That’s how the economy works, small businesses look for opportunities to buy product cheap and in bulk and sell at markup, stocks are issued with the intent of growth and sold at profit, investors short stocks with intent to profit. You buy a house in a hot market looking to ride the rising value to make a profit on the new equity.

Your daughter could possibly score the same tickets if she’d be quicker on the trigger when tickets are announced. I went to the Bruno Mars concert and paid face value because I purchased them one year in advance when they first announced the tour. Am I angry or bitter that scalpers are selling the same tickets for thousands more a month before the concert? No because I’m realistic about the situation and planned things ahead.

Am I going to buy tickets from a scalper to go see Hamilton? Maybe if I really wanted to see it THAT badly... but I’m not going to “shame” the ticket holder.. I’m not privileged and don’t deserve any special treatment. If I really want to go, I’ll shell out the mark up. Simple as that.

For you to “shame” someone else just because they got the jump on you and chooses to do what they wish with their car makes you the dogmatic one but I don’t want to derail this thread and take things down that road.

It is also very assumptive of you that you are the only one that works hard around here.

Happy New Years!

Like I stated earlier, the only solution is / was for Tesla to meet demand with supply, and to not oversell reservations. Until both of these factors are covered, there will always be opportunistic people who would rather make an extra 10-20-30k on a CAR. Because after all, at then end of things, we are just talking about a CAR here... (a normally depreciating asset).

 

[DukeofURL]

I don’t think it’s comparable to the scalper bots, as each person had to stand in line in the middle of the night to be able to take delivery this early, were capped at 2 reservations per person, and if they took advantage of that second res, they still won’t get the second car until next year or so. Not so much a diabolical fiend sitting on 50 Model 3s he’s going to try to scalp for 2x original cost, depriving other owners, lol

That said, I think the largest portion of people selling early deliveries are just like us who have found themselves lucky and are acting purely opportunistically. Take my situation, for example: I got in line are 3 or 4am and waited until opening time to place my order, so thrilled I could finally buy a Tesla after mildly obsessing over them for years. In the two years since then, I was fortunate enough to get a new job with a larger salary and there were tons of promotions on inventory Model Ses at then end of Q3, I could actually afford the car I *REALLY* wanted, so I pulled the trigger. Pair that with some of the design decisions the Model 3 ended up taking (no instrument cluster, for one) I asked if I could use my deposit towards the MS - they said I’d have to cancel and wait for it to be refunded. The owner advisor actually suggested I keep it, and cancel it later if I was certain I didn’t want the 3, as by buying the S I would even move up in the queue.

So now I have the car of my dreams (yayy!!) and I still have a reservation for one that I waited on line for in the middle of the night, but what do I do with it? I don’t know if I need another Tesla! What would you do?

That said, all of this thread is splitting hairs as selling a single item you have for a few bucks more than you bought it for isn’t morally reprehensible in any meaningful way, at least not when compared to this dude: Elon Musk Boring Company Hat Authentic SIGNED | eBay

 

[run-the-joules]

I don’t think it’s comparable to the scalper bots, as each person had to stand in line in the middle of the night to be able to take delivery this early, were capped at 2 reservations per person, and if they took advantage of that second res, they still won’t get the second car until next year or so. Not so much a diabolical fiend sitting on 50 Model 3s he’s going to try to scalp for 2x original cost, depriving other owners, lol

This is false. You (simply) needed to have owned two Teslas in the past and made two reservations and live in California and you could be in the situation where both of your reservations were available to configure weeks ago.

So now I have the car of my dreams (yayy!!) and I still have a reservation for one that I waited on line for in the middle of the night, but what do I do with it? I don’t know if I need another Tesla! What would you do?

I can say with 100% honesty that if I already had my realistic dream car*, and had a spare reservation for a 3 that was ready to configure, I would try and help a friend or family member jump the queue if we could make it work. If that didn't work, I'd probably throw it on the open market as well because in the end, I'm human and I like money. I'd probably lose some respect for myself for a short time, but I'd get over it. I don't like scalpers, but I'm not going to pretend I don't understand why they do it.


(which in this case is a Model 3, since if I could have talked myself into thinking that I like the S more than the 3 I'd have ordered one months ago and would now be in the same situation as you. Alas, I genuinely prefer the 3 even though the S is affordable).

 

[daniel]

... Your daughter could possibly score the same tickets if she’d be quicker on the trigger when tickets are announced...

There are concerts that sell out within a millisecond of going on sale on line because scalpers have developed bots just for that purpose. This is what scum do. It's not illegal. Plenty of scummy activities are not illegal. Some artists are experimenting with ways to prevent this. It doesn't affect me because I don't go to concerts. But I can recognize the activities of a parasite who contributes nothing but manages to extract money from someone else's labor.

I don't put these cars in the same category because Tesla wisely limited the number of reservations per person, and I don't think very many people will want to sell the car, or that very many people will pay a high enough premium to make up for the lost tax credit. And unlike concert tickets, which are limited by the number of seats and how many concerts a popular artist can perform, Tesla will continue building cars, at an ever-increasing rate, until everyone who wants one can get it with minimal waiting.

I applaud Tesla for doing what it has in its power to do to prevent scalping.