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Well, it helps pass the time while we non-anointed unwashed masses wait for the privilege of buying the car
DFibRL8R
Active Member
Hey, I'm right there with you in my beater 5 year old MS60!Well, it helps pass the time while we non-anointed unwashed masses wait for the privilege of buying the car
DFibRL8R
Active Member
I hope not! I'm sure not bored of the S, still such a joy to driveYou'll likely be bored of your Model 3 before I get my config invite
I’ll sell my model 3 for a profit if someone is willing to pay for it. Absolutely nothin wrong with that. It’s exactly the same as concert tickets, tickle-me Elmo’s, IPhone X’s, etc. there is absolutely nothing unique about the Model 3 and having the car first. A commodity is just that. Having the product and off-loading it when there’s the demand doesn’t make you greedy or a bad person, simply opportunistic.
The market sets the price. Why is making a profit so wrong about it? Everyone put down the same deposit. Just because you haven’t received yours before someone else doesn’t make it that persons fault.
On EBay you can filter completed listings and you’ll see some Model 3’s have sold for $75k +. Heck I even see some completed listings with reservations being sold for $5k+. This is how everything works in a capitalistic system. Get used to it. Does it suck for you? Maybe. Doesn’t it suck for someone who wants the car RIGHT NOW and has the disposable income to buy it? Not at all. Is it a smart move for that person to pay above market price? That’s for that person to decide and not for us to judge.
The market sets the price. Why is making a profit so wrong about it? Everyone put down the same deposit. Just because you haven’t received yours before someone else doesn’t make it that persons fault.
On EBay you can filter completed listings and you’ll see some Model 3’s have sold for $75k +. Heck I even see some completed listings with reservations being sold for $5k+. This is how everything works in a capitalistic system. Get used to it. Does it suck for you? Maybe. Doesn’t it suck for someone who wants the car RIGHT NOW and has the disposable income to buy it? Not at all. Is it a smart move for that person to pay above market price? That’s for that person to decide and not for us to judge.
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Impatience makes us all crabby.
I think there's also a natural human indignation when there's a secondary market at a higher price than the primary market, and a few people make money doing nothing but flipping an item. Concert tickets are a big one: A performer tries to make her performance accessible by keeping ticket prices low, and a scalper with a ticket-buying bot manages to buy a bucketful of tickets and sell them for what the market will bear. The result is that the fans have to pay the higher price anyway, and the performer and her team, who do the actual work, are deprived of the money. The scalper has done no socially-useful work. It feels like theft.
When someone flips at Model 3 for a 50% profit, there is a feeling of indignation because the scalper has done no socially-useful work. In the absence of a contract prohibiting it, the scalper has broken no law. But he has taken money that, had it gone to Tesla, would go back into further R&D for products that make the world better.
The scalper has used the legal processes available in a free-market economy, but it feels slimy because he did nothing useful for that money, and even took it away from the R&D stream. I'd be happier if Tesla openly offered to allow anybody who wanted, to go to the head of the line for an additional $50,000. The money would stay with Tesla, and so few people would pay it that the rest of us would get our cars almost as soon as we will under the present scheme.
But in the end, I expect very few cars to sell this way.
I’d very much doubt people would be happier if this were the case. If anything this would be something else for one to cry foul over.
But in a way, that is kind of how Tesla is prioritizing things no? Basically those who are current owners (paid Tesla sums of money already) get to be next in line (after the employees)?
You all know we wouldn't have this problem at all if Tesla sold through dealers like all the other manufacturers?
Then, as is typical for hot, new releases, the dealers could mark it up as the market would support and there would be no individuals entering the resale market.
Basically, these individuals are providing the 'service' that dealerships (aka stealerships) normally do
Then, as is typical for hot, new releases, the dealers could mark it up as the market would support and there would be no individuals entering the resale market.
Basically, these individuals are providing the 'service' that dealerships (aka stealerships) normally do
There will always be a secondary market with or without dealers. See the Porsche markets on the 911R, GT4 Cayman (when it first released), and the GT3RS. All sold through dealers and available through the secondary private market at double the original price.
As long as there are 400-500k reservation holders waiting, I suspect the cars will sell at over the sticker price. I guess we can check in couple of weeks on ebay with the "show closed auctions only" filter, and we will now for how much they went.
Btw, did any non-California non-Tesla employee get an invite? My homepage still says November - January for the window, but somehow I suspect it will be much later
Btw, did any non-California non-Tesla employee get an invite? My homepage still says November - January for the window, but somehow I suspect it will be much later
Yeah, once I get mine I won't be agonizing over what is happening with the invite list anymore...
I can't say I am surprised about this situation, or even too bent out of shape about it.
just a little disappointed to see it happening.
This all reminded me of this old situation:
Fans cry foul Tom Petty cancels 460 tickets to stop scalpers - TomPetty.com Official Blog
Some artists have attempted to reduce scalping... Selling tickets only through well established fan club sites, etc.
I suspect Tesla going with existing owners first also minimized / reduced the amount of speculative buying going on.
If they had wanted to reduce it even more, they could have done more draconian things like:
#1: Only allow 1 reservation per person, not 2...
#2: Provide some perk only to the original buyer so resold M3s would have some lesser value. Perhaps different supercharging rates, or change in warranty or something like that.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Pinot.Noir
Member
Hey, that's the same spot where our 3 was yesterday at pickup.
For #2 the perk would be the tax incentives and such. Secondary market buyers however look at the need to have the very latest item as the greater gain, vs the financial incentive to wait (perhaps knowing that it might be moot anyways if they’re not expecting delivery until the inventive runs out. These are the same people who will gladly pay a markup over MSRP to have the first release of ANYTHING. So if they’re willing to shell out the coin, why is it wrong to hand them what they want in exchange? Absolutely nothing wrong with paying “more” for something you really want. It’s not really a “need” since a car is just a depreciating commodity anyways.
Only solution to this issue is for Tesla to meet demand with supply. No other way around it. (Or for th 3 to be a complete dud).
Until that happens, there is no other way to make things “fair”. Simply just not possible.
I would say that every single one of us placed a deposit on a speculative product with the intent to either keep, evaluate, sell, or flip. There are no rules to the free market. Most of us never got to test drive, preview, or see the car so why would we place such a “long term” commitment to it beforehand?
I still have my S and my thoughts where if the 3 made a more sensible commuter for me, maybe I’d “trade-down” but I love my S so I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Next solution would be to see if my wife would be able to use the car along with 2 car seats... But if these things are selling on EBay for 10-20k over MSRP, then it would be tough for me to not think twice about putting it up for sale as well. After all, her current ICE vehicle works just fine.
Frankly the only ones I can see paying that much over the price of a new one are other companies that want to reverse engineer the car. On one hand I would rather they have to wait to get their hands on one, on the other I want them to come out with competing cars and figure they need to reverse engineer a Tesla in order to accomplish that.
I hate scalpers however if companies really wanted to eliminate them there are plenty of options to reduce them if not eliminate them. Harder to do with cars than concert tickets but there are still options. Tesla I think has done as much as reasonable to curtail the scalpers the other options I can come up with just result in more issues and bad PR.
I figure if you can afford those prices and be able to plunk down a large portion of that as cash (I wouldn't think many banks are going to loan 150% of the value of the car) they can afford a Model S. Granted not everyone wants an S there are some that really want a 3 for one reason or another. I bet either the price on those cars comes down a lot closer to original or they will remain unsold. I think there is a really limited market for the 3 at $10k or more above new price.
I hate scalpers however if companies really wanted to eliminate them there are plenty of options to reduce them if not eliminate them. Harder to do with cars than concert tickets but there are still options. Tesla I think has done as much as reasonable to curtail the scalpers the other options I can come up with just result in more issues and bad PR.
I figure if you can afford those prices and be able to plunk down a large portion of that as cash (I wouldn't think many banks are going to loan 150% of the value of the car) they can afford a Model S. Granted not everyone wants an S there are some that really want a 3 for one reason or another. I bet either the price on those cars comes down a lot closer to original or they will remain unsold. I think there is a really limited market for the 3 at $10k or more above new price.
The bid on that car is now $35,300 and the reserve price has not yet been met. It's pretty darn misleading to have a very low starting bid but a much higher and undisclosed reserve price.
I will not buy the car to flip. I will buy it or I will ask for my deposit back. If I buy it (which I fully expect to do) I will drive it until I can get a car I like better, which might be the P-AWD Model 3, or might be whatever FSD car comes along first, or might just be a later Model 3 or a smaller model Tesla. The only exception to this would be if the car turns out to be a lemon, in which case I'd try to get my money back, but I would not sell it.
I think the vast majority of us (like 99.99% of us) are buying the car to keep it and drive it until our own individual preferences and style make it time to trade in for a different car or send to the junk heap at the end of its life. Some people keep a car for a year, and some drive it until the wheels are ready to fall off. But I think that fewer than one out of a thousand of us placed our order with the intent to try to flip the car for a profit.
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