MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[eivissa]

Since I am far less active here I might have overlooked it, but I've had a glimpse into the EPA DB lately and found some charge data that confirms most of our SMT measurements.

Panasonic 3L with real 82kWh:

CATL 6L with real 62kWh:

 

[AAKEE]

Since I am far less active here I might have overlooked it, but I've had a glimpse into the EPA DB lately and found some charge data that confirms most of our SMT measurements.

Panasonic 3L with real 82kWh:
View attachment 747311

CATL 6L with real 62kWh:
View attachment 747312

So they actually got 82.1kWh out of the 2170L pack ?

 

[conv90]

So they actually got 82.1kWh out of the 2170L pack ?

I think Tesla give to EPA the best batteries they have for tests.
To me a 79,xx battery.
To you a 81,xx

 

[AAKEE]

I think Tesla give to EPA the best batteries they have for tests.
To me a 79,xx battery.
To you a 81,xx

81.4 after one year/ 31.000km, probably would have delivered 82.1kWh as new, as well.

I had a drive 80% to 16% the day before yesterday. The car slept with 16% during the whole night. Did a full charge yesterday 16-100%. Nominal full pack 81.1kWh, and the battery reached 81.3kWh nominal remaining. Seems that the BMS probably was not that off actually.

An interresting note, the teslafi range is most often not right. Charged to 100%, did read 507km on the battery range, but teslafi reports a descending ranfe for that full charge(500.43km).
I have had a climb of the NFP from about 80kWh to 81.3-4kWh but the average reported teslafi range has not increased. The opposite actually, teslafi reported higher range when I had some 80kWh than after the increase.

Scan My Tesla reports a very more accurate range, if compared to what the battery range really shows. SMT most often 506-508km.
Pictures below refers to the same time.
SMT reported 508km, apperently I didnt get a photo of that.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Which is the more accurate predictor of range? The battery icon

The battery icon has little to do with range. Note that Tesla calls it an Energy Display (which is what it is). So it’s not remotely accurate for range. Just loosely correlated. It has units of energy (rated km are a unit of energy, not distance - understandably confusing but it is what it is).

So they actually got 82.1kWh out of the 2170L pack ?

It’s routine that the EPA values show higher than any SMT value for NFP, by around 1kWh. The reasons are unclear. It could be because they run it until the car stops, and the BMS has a little buffer below where Nominal remaining drops to true 0. Or, they may be measuring kWh consumed differently (completely). They have calibrated Hioki clamps on everything which may be more accurate than any BMS measurement of consumed/available energy.

Anyway, there’s nearly always been a scaling - or an offset, depending on the root cause (there are a couple exceptions). Original 2018-2020 AWD LRs had 78-78.5kWh when new per SMT, but generally EPA tests showed about 79-79.5KWh.

 

[Kaz93]

Not very big cycles.
When do you charge? In the evening or late night? Is the average SOC during nights high? (Thats my guess).

I charge to about 55% most days.
Daily cycle is down to 25-35 depending on the time if the year.
30100Km

Only one year old, M3P refresh with E3LD.
Still full range!

View attachment 746961

What app are you using for this?

 

[AAKEE]

What app are you using for this?

Thats Teslafi ( TeslaFi.com Tesla Model S 3 X Y Data Logger ). Teslafi use the data the car sends "in the air". Teslafi data is available on the net via a login to the server.

Teslafi do not have all the precise data som the range is a bit estimated. Teslafi said 500.43 km the same day I charged full to 81.3kWh, which is "more than full" range. The screen range was 507km.
I also use Scan My tesla( scan my tesla )which get data directly from the car via a obd-cable+odb-dongle.
I also use teslalogger ( Degradation ) which let Scan My Telsa send data to a server, which I then can use.

 

[Kaz93]

Thats Teslafi ( TeslaFi.com Tesla Model S 3 X Y Data Logger ). Teslafi use the data the car sends "in the air". Teslafi data is available on the net via a login to the server.

Teslafi do not have all the precise data som the range is a bit estimated. Teslafi said 500.43 km the same day I charged full to 81.3kWh, which is "more than full" range. The screen range was 507km.
I also use Scan My tesla( scan my tesla )which get data directly from the car via a obd-cable+odb-dongle.
I also use teslalogger ( Degradation ) which let Scan My Telsa send data to a server, which I then can use.

How do you like it? I've heard people have problem with it? showing that wakes the car and other things when its not told to ? turns on AC and other stuff?

 

[AAKEE]

How do you like it? I've heard people have problem with it? showing that wakes the car and other things when its not told to ? turns on AC and other stuff?

Teslafi never did anything like this for me.
Tha car sleeps when it should, sleep all night until charging commence.

Arrived cirka 0130(AM) this night. Apperently forgot to connect the charging cable( no charging started 0430).
The S means ”sleep” and he dotted SOC line is estimated as the car do not send any data when at sleep. So now it has slept since before 0200 (AM), still sleeping 0947(AM).

Scan My Tesla / Teslalogger only gets data via the OBD-when the cars is awake and send data via the tablets sim card so it is ”stand alone and do not interfere with sleeps etc.

I like teslafi for the simplicity and the easy to use web interface, but it to not at all get the deep level details that (SMT) Scan My Tesla /Teslalogger get.
Teslafi = cocktail level
SMT/Teslalogger = Nerd level.
I like both.

 

[Kaz93]

Teslafi never did anything like this for me.
Tha car sleeps when it should, sleep all night until charging commence.

Arrived cirka 0130(AM) this night. Apperently forgot to connect the charging cable( no charging started 0430).
The S means ”sleep” and he dotted SOC line is estimated as the car do not send any data when at sleep. So now it has slept since before 0200 (AM), still sleeping 0947(AM).
View attachment 751350

Scan My Tesla / Teslalogger only gets data via the OBD-when the cars is awake and send data via the tablets sim card so it is ”stand alone and do not interfere with sleeps etc.

I like teslafi for the simplicity and the easy to use web interface, but it to not at all get the deep level details that (SMT) Scan My Tesla /Teslalogger get.
Teslafi = cocktail level
SMT/Teslalogger = Nerd level.
I like both.

Do you pay for yours? also, how does it track battery degradation?

 

[jmj196]

Model 3 Performance delivered mid December.
I am not into the charge times etc, a little way to go on that front. But my car is charged to 80% and has a range at this moment of 238, add another 20% gives me 297.5, which is well below the advertised number for my car, yes I have the 20 uberturbines. But am I looking at those numbers and being a happy or worried?

 

[AAKEE]

I am not into the charge times etc, a little way to go on that front. But my car is charged to 80% and has a range at this moment of 238, add another 20% gives me 297.5, which is well below the advertised number for my car, yes I have the 20 uberturbines. But am I looking at those numbers and being a happy or worried?

The car will not display the WLTP.

It should display a range close to the EPA range.

Do you know if the WLTP is 567km(352miles) or 547km(340miles)?

With 567km( and the 82kWh battery) it should display 507km or slightly less.

There is M3P’s coming with the new LG battery, wich has the spec 78.8kWh, but they do not always reach that.
The probable max range with this battery is about 488-489km.
It seem like this could be the case?

The 82kWh with 567km has the code E3LD in the registration papers in EU, and the LG/547km should get the code E5LD.
Maybe UK us this as well?

If the car actually has the 82kWh battery someting seems strange. But its always wise to have som cycles and at lest one high charge to ”wake” the battery and show the capacity to the Battery Management System.

If it is the E6LD, a range of slightly less than 488km/304miles is expected as the battery do not always start at the specified capacity. 297.5 miles implies just above 76kWh which is possible if you have the E6LD.

 

[jmj196]

The car will not display the WLTP.

It should display a range close to the EPA range.

Do you know if the WLTP is 567km(352miles) or 547km(340miles)?

With 567km( and the 82kWh battery) it should display 507km or slightly less.

There is M3P’s coming with the new LG battery, wich has the spec 78.8kWh, but they do not always reach that.
The probable max range with this battery is about 488-489km.
It seem like this could be the case?

The 82kWh with 567km has the code E3LD in the registration papers in EU, and the LG/547km should get the code E5LD.
Maybe UK us this as well?

If the car actually has the 82kWh battery someting seems strange. But its always wise to have som cycles and at lest one high charge to ”wake” the battery and show the capacity to the Battery Management System.

If it is the E6LD, a range of slightly less than 488km/304miles is expected as the battery do not always start at the specified capacity. 297.5 miles implies just above 76kWh which is possible if you have the E6LD.

Thanks for replay….lots for me to digest and understand.

 

[Kaz93]

The car will not display the WLTP.

It should display a range close to the EPA range.

Do you know if the WLTP is 567km(352miles) or 547km(340miles)?

With 567km( and the 82kWh battery) it should display 507km or slightly less.

There is M3P’s coming with the new LG battery, wich has the spec 78.8kWh, but they do not always reach that.
The probable max range with this battery is about 488-489km.
It seem like this could be the case?

The 82kWh with 567km has the code E3LD in the registration papers in EU, and the LG/547km should get the code E5LD.
Maybe UK us this as well?

If the car actually has the 82kWh battery someting seems strange. But its always wise to have som cycles and at lest one high charge to ”wake” the battery and show the capacity to the Battery Management System.

If it is the E6LD, a range of slightly less than 488km/304miles is expected as the battery do not always start at the specified capacity. 297.5 miles implies just above 76kWh which is possible if you have the E6LD.

Where would one find out what battery they have? I took delivery in USA, California a couple weeks ago a M3P and i wonder what battery i have. Thanks.

 

[AAKEE]

Where would one find out what battery they have? I took delivery in USA, California a couple weeks ago a M3P and i wonder what battery i have. Thanks.

In US I’m quite sure there is only one option for the M3P(the ”best” option), the Panasonic 82kWh battery.

There is a possibility to check the battery sticker, but I think it wont be needed.
Do you know the EPA range? 315mi ?
There should only be one option and a full charge should show close to 315 mi on the battery range.

 

[aaronr]

Just had my V5C (UK registration document) come through in the post after picking up on December 30th, which states my M3LR has the new E5LD LG battery. Didn't think any of the Q4 cars were going to get that here in the UK!

Haven't charged to 100% yet (will try that tonight) but TeslaMate seems to think that 100% would be ~354 miles Projected Rated Range, which seems to be in line with the EPA rating for the M3LR with 18" wheels.

 

[eivissa]

Just had my V5C (UK registration document) come through in the post after picking up on December 30th, which states my M3LR has the new E5LD LG battery. Didn't think any of the Q4 cars were going to get that here in the UK!

Haven't charged to 100% yet (will try that tonight) but TeslaMate seems to think that 100% would be ~354 miles Projected Rated Range, which seems to be in line with the EPA rating for the M3LR with 18" wheels.

About time you guys get the larger battery packs as the rest of us on the "mainland" ;-)

 

[DBM3P]

The car will not display the WLTP.

It should display a range close to the EPA range.

Do you know if the WLTP is 567km(352miles) or 547km(340miles)?

With 567km( and the 82kWh battery) it should display 507km or slightly less.

There is M3P’s coming with the new LG battery, wich has the spec 78.8kWh, but they do not always reach that.
The probable max range with this battery is about 488-489km.
It seem like this could be the case?

The 82kWh with 567km has the code E3LD in the registration papers in EU, and the LG/547km should get the code E5LD.
Maybe UK us this as well?

If the car actually has the 82kWh battery someting seems strange. But its always wise to have som cycles and at lest one high charge to ”wake” the battery and show the capacity to the Battery Management System.

If it is the E6LD, a range of slightly less than 488km/304miles is expected as the battery do not always start at the specified capacity. 297.5 miles implies just above 76kWh which is possible if you have the E6LD.

Model 3 Performance delivered mid December.
I am not into the charge times etc, a little way to go on that front. But my car is charged to 80% and has a range at this moment of 238, add another 20% gives me 297.5, which is well below the advertised number for my car, yes I have the 20 uberturbines. But am I looking at those numbers and being a happy or worried?

I posted about my U.K. M3P, collected in September. Similar to the OP’s position. The highest I saw in summer was 311 on the app slider. EPA was 315 with mine. Within a month or so, and 1200 miles, I was seeing a max charge of 300 miles rated.


November time I invested in SMT, which shows a NFP of 76.6 to 77.1. CAC 222-224. Panasonic 82.1 (the when new value).

Charging to 60% (with the granny charger), not seeing an improvement yet. Very frustrating so far!

I’m on 2300 miles, August built, September picked up.

 

[AAKEE]

I posted about my U.K. M3P, collected in September. Similar to the OP’s position. The highest I saw in summer was 311 on the app slider. EPA was 315 with mine. Within a month or so, and 1200 miles, I was seeing a max charge of 300 miles rated.


November time I invested in SMT, which shows a NFP of 76.6 to 77.1. CAC 222-224. Panasonic 82.1 (the when new value).

Charging to 60% (with the granny charger), not seeing an improvement yet. Very frustrating so far!

I’m on 2300 miles, August built, September picked up.

How did you charge initially? Always 60%?
Sentry always on? It could be good to let the car sleep, with the battery disconnected for some hours.

You might need to help the BMS with a calibration, go low( 5-20%), let it sit at least five hours, then charge to 90% an let it sit a few hours. You could also do 100% but then let is sit only one or two hours, then drive it down a bit. Al this with sentry mode off, doors closed and let the car have siome time for itself.

If the BMS was off, this probably would help.
If the battery was charged very high and the car stood long times with 80-90% at high temps( it do not sound like it did, but for info) the capacity could be lost by degradation which do not come back.

After a BMS calibration( sleep at low and high SOC), you could try to charge to 55% daily. I use 55% as it is below a degradation step and most probably reduvce calendar aging. It also get the BMS to think the battery is bigger after some time of daily 55%.
Going down below20% is not bad gor the battery. As long as you do not get stranded due to low SOC, low numbers is not bad.

My M3P ‘21, with the 82.1kWh 2170L.
One year and a couple of days, 31500km:

 

[DBM3P]

How did you charge initially? Always 60%?
Sentry always on? It could be good to let the car sleep, with the battery disconnected for some hours.

You might need to help the BMS with a calibration, go low( 5-20%), let it sit at least five hours, then charge to 90% an let it sit a few hours. You could also do 100% but then let is sit only one or two hours, then drive it down a bit. Al this with sentry mode off, doors closed and let the car have siome time for itself.

If the BMS was off, this probably would help.
If the battery was charged very high and the car stood long times with 80-90% at high temps( it do not sound like it did, but for info) the capacity could be lost by degradation which do not come back.

After a BMS calibration( sleep at low and high SOC), you could try to charge to 55% daily. I use 55% as it is below a degradation step and most probably reduvce calendar aging. It also get the BMS to think the battery is bigger after some time of daily 55%.
Going down below20% is not bad gor the battery. As long as you do not get stranded due to low SOC, low numbers is not bad.

My M3P ‘21, with the 82.1kWh 2170L.
One year and a couple of days, 31500km:
View attachment 752319

I have a electricity tariff that's cheap between 00:30 and 04:30 every night. Because i'm using the 3-pin Tesla charger (2kw), it's very slow and only gives about 10% charge over that period. I get a 3-phase 22kw charger installed next week!

Initially, before I realised the range drop, I would charge from 40-50, next night 50-60, then 60-70. Never got higher than 70%. Often I would charge 10% then use 10% around town. This does mean the car has seen >80% only a few times (SuC), as it takes so long to get there.

Today, SMT says I've done 189kWH DC and 712kWH AC charging.

Initially, I had Sentry on outside of home and used 2x apps that would wake the car (ev.energy and Ohme). I do low miles, and the car can sit for 1-3 days without being moved. 2300 miles in 3 months.

At the start of November (1.5 months old, approx 1000 miles) I charged it to 100% for the first time and the rated range was 300 miles (similar to @jmj196 rated range). That's when I posted on here, and have been careful ever since with letting the car sleep for 4-5hrs before charging or discharging. Sentry is now off, all apps removed (Tesla password changed), keeping SOC <60%.

I have one theory - the use of a slow charger means that the cells stay cold during charging, so you have more losses which the BMS records as a lower NFP. To test this, I started charging at public AC chargers for a few hours AND pre-conditioning cells (navigate to supercharger) to raise cell temps to 25c. After 3-4 charges, I'm seeing some correlation. I get 77.1 NFP if I charge warm cells (11kw AC public charge or navigate to SuC), if I don't warm the cells NFP starts to drop down to 76.6. I'll update this forum if the NFP issues goes away once I have a 22kw charger installed at home.

I'll also try a full cycle @AAKEE and see if that helps too, once I get my charger installed. The most i've done is 9% to 100% once, but I was unable to leave it sit at the low/high SOC for more than about 2-3hrs.

Will post back with SMT screenshots and any changes with low to high SOC cycle, plus if the quicker AC charger makes a difference.