Agreed. Luckily she was only going 30mph or so and there was enough time to stop.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
hybridbear
Active Member
FSD Beta is very slow to react. I frequently tap the brake pedal to disengage when it is slow to react to a light ahead that turns yellow/red. My goal right now using FSD Beta is to have as many disengagements as possible for all the stupid things it does so that they get sent back to the development team.
clydeiii
Member
This is why I pre-emptively slow down the FSD when I'm about to encounter traffic like this...I greatly prefer it to be 8-10 car lengths away from the car in front, just to ensure stuff like this can't happen.
In my experience, FSD (or EAP) will never switch lanes when following that closely unless I force it, and even then it will start slowing down immediately. Human memory is especially bad in split-second decision land (hence people insisting their Teslas drove through their garage wall while they were pressing the brakes back in the day). If i had to guess, I'd say that she automatically used the accelerator to prevent it from slowing down. Cars shouldn't slow down while you are pressing the accelerator unless you are also pressing the brake, so it is feasible FSD was doing exactly what she told it to do.
ETA: In this scenario, slowing would start as soon as the accelerator was released and EBA would likely kick in when the brake pedal was pressed. It's very likely that both of those things helped prevent an accident that would have beenn due to driver error if my hypothesis is correct.
FSD does indeed jump into lanes as demonstrated above. I've had it happen twice on freeways and both times FSD was asleep at the wheel. And I am rarely on the freeway!
Just wait until FSD decides to change lanes simultaneously with another vehicle two lanes over on the freeway (sharing same space and time). It can happen in less than a second and FSD won't have the chops to respond in time. Fortunately humans can anticipate this possibility before it happens as well as have the speed to respond in time. FSD frequently is unable to do either.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I've had multiple occasions where another vehicle simultaneously tries to merge into the lane FSD Beta is merging into. On every instance, FSD Beta has pulled back into the lane it was merging from. It's very cautious in this regard, and won't even initialize lane changes when another car is quickly coming up from behind.
OK, so while I haven't experienced it do this, you have, but you still don't suggest it would do so and mtaintain that distance. Does that imply that I'm likely correct that her foot was on the accelerator?
I've had FSD attempt to switch into the same lane someone else is attempting to switch into and I understand it is beta software that "can do the worst possible thing at the worst possible time" so I loook when it's changing lanes and I took over before it had the chance to be scary. We've also already been around the block on how "chops" and "performance" aren't things you can measure when the lack of response you think should be expected is potentially programmed out one way or another.
There are numerous youtube videos of late FSD version drives showing otherwise.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Then it should be easy for you to find an example to show us? Because I haven't seen the situation you're describing.
Not from my perspective and experiences with FSD.
As she began changing lanes there appeared to be plenty of open space between lead vehicles. But that all changed in a few short seconds and the cars bunched up. It happens. Add to that the big truck appeared to be distracted as evidenced by swerving in the lane and hard braking. But in the end, FSD didn't adequately respond regardless of how we might like to spin it.
And I have several times. Your welcome to search for them.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I have. On this forum and on Youtube. Plenty about zipper merges, but nothing about "FSD decides to change lanes simultaneously with another vehicle two lanes over on the freeway (sharing same space and time). It can happen in less than a second and FSD won't have the chops to respond in time." as you said above.
So post a video of the above happening, or admit you're just fear-mongering.
It's not spin if FSD was being told not to respond by the accelerator, it's human driving. Obviously there is no way to know whether or not that happened, but you don't know that FSD failed to respond at all, much less if it failed to respond adequately because it's "slow."
hybridbear
Active Member
This has been my experience too.
I've had some where it swerves back, but not always. I sometimes see it & react faster than FSD Beta, especially if the other car is early in its lane change or is starting a very gradual lane change.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I'm not contesting the fact that an attentive driver can react faster than FSD Beta can; I'm contesting the idea that FSD Beta would not react at all, to the point where it would try and occupy the same space as another vehicle. Even if it was a rare possibility, I'm sure we would have read about the dozens of terrible collisions that would have already occurred by now; just based on the ~150 million miles driven on FSD Beta, and how often human drivers aren't fully attentive.
hybridbear
Active Member
You make a good point. I've long wanted to test out some of these things on a quiet street with another vehicle where we could create situations to see what FSD Beta would do while minimizing the risk of being around lots of cars. But we only own 1 car it's not possible to test. I'd like to do something like this video, but with another car.
I just don't see that happening. From my experience FSDb is very "scaredy cat" when it comes to lane changes. It aborts if just about anything changes.
It is the same with cars turning left from a parking lot into the median/suicide lane with ego in the lane to the right of that. It assumes that they are going to go all the way into the lane ego is in, and either slows or slams on the brakes. Even if it has essentially already passed them before they pull out, such that they could go all the way into the lane behind, it will slam on the brakes which could cause a problem. Honestly that is the biggest problem I have with the current 11.4.6 FSDb.
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