Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

[MSM_M3LR]

Thanks for your replies @Gauss Guzzler @Sophias_dad and @3sr+buyer , I've decided to have a completely different company come out and rewire the current circuit and change to a 50 amp breaker, inspect the sub panel to make sure he wired that correctly as well, and then run another circuit to hardwire the wall connector as it should be.

Just wanted to jump in and update this. Had another electrician come out to take a look at my situation. Turns out what I thought was a 60 amp breaker on the welder circuit is really a 30 amp breaker. There are 2 30 amp breakers linked together, which led me to believe is was 60 amps. So that circuit is good. The circuit to power the 60 gal air compressor is good and the wires used to power the subpanel are good. He said he would add a new 60 amp circuit with 6 awg wire to power the wall connector and would also put in a 90 amp breaker feeding the subpanel just incase I ever weld while the car is plugged in. So now all I gotta do is wait for the wall connector to show up and he'll come back out to do the install. I ordered the wall connector on the June 25 so hopefully I'll get it soon, still haven't received any shipping info....

 

[Sophias_dad]

6 awg wire to power the wall connector

Just FYI, 6AWG that's NMB(aka not individual conductors in conduit) is only good for 40amps continuous. If its in individual conductors in conduit, you'll be fine at 48 amps.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Just FYI, 6AWG that's NMB(aka not individual conductors in conduit) is only good for 40amps continuous. If its in individual conductors in conduit, you'll be fine at 48 amps.

6 gauge NM-B aka ROMEX is good for 55 amps (but still not good enough for the wall connector). 8 gauge NM-B is 40 amps.

 

[Sophias_dad]

6 gauge NM-B aka ROMEX is good for 55 amps (but still not good enough for the wall connector). 8 gauge NM-B is 40 amps.

6 gauge NM-B is good for 55 amps, but needs to be downrated to 44 amps for continuous use. You can still use it for the wall connector, but it should be on a 50 amp breaker and the HPWC should be configured as such.

8 gauge NM-B is good for 40 amps, but needs to be downrated to 32 amps for continuous use.

 

[Genie]

NM-B is such a PITA to work with I’m surprised it gets brought up so much. I personally find THHN or other suitable conductors in conduit faster, easier, and cleaner to install.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Nothing is easier to drag thru an attic than NM-B, and nothing is easier to run inside walls - pre or post construction.
But yeah, other than being the easiest to use for nearly 100% of all household wiring, it's a PITA.

What is a PITA is drywall repair, so people retrofitting EVSE circuits may find that surface mount in conduit is easier than going thru drywall and has the added benefit of allowing ~20% faster charge rates thru the same size wire.

 

[Jeremy3292]

What is a PITA is drywall repair, so people retrofitting EVSE circuits may find that surface mount in conduit is easier than going thru drywall and has the added benefit of allowing ~20% faster charge rates thru the same size wire.

Exactly what I did. Conduit attached to the drywall exterior with 6 gauge THHN through it. Easy

 

[terranx]

Nothing is easier to drag thru an attic than NM-B, and nothing is easier to run inside walls - pre or post construction.
But yeah, other than being the easiest to use for nearly 100% of all household wiring, it's a PITA.

What is a PITA is drywall repair, so people retrofitting EVSE circuits may find that surface mount in conduit is easier than going thru drywall and has the added benefit of allowing ~20% faster charge rates thru the same size wire.

MC cable kinda gets you the best of both worlds. Not sure why it isn't more popular.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

MC cable isn't popular because it isn't sold at Lowes. But you're right that it is a great option.

 

[ElectricNerd]

I've noticed twice now that if it gets too hot while I'm charging, the Grizzl-E charger in my garage will error (I'll see this in the Tesla app first) and start blinking one single red, similar to how it was when I first installed the Bryant 1450 outlet replacing the LeGrange one the electrician installed. The only fix is to unplug the charger, turn off the breaker, wait a few seconds and turn the breaker back on and plug the charger back in.

Anyone else seeing something similar with their 240v chargers?

 

[Genie]

I've noticed twice now that if it gets too hot while I'm charging, the Grizzl-E charger in my garage will error (I'll see this in the Tesla app first) and start blinking one single red, similar to how it was when I first installed the Bryant 1450 outlet replacing the LeGrange one the electrician installed. The only fix is to unplug the charger, turn off the breaker, wait a few seconds and turn the breaker back on and plug the charger back in.

Anyone else seeing something similar with their 240v chargers?

Are you charging at 32A? Have you tried charging at a lower amperage, maybe 25? At some rate the plug temp. will drop to a level your WC is happy with, it may be as little as a couple amps less.

 

[ElectricNerd]

Are you charging at 32A? Have you tried charging at a lower amperage, maybe 25? At some rate the plug temp. will drop to a level your WC is happy with, it may be as little as a couple amps less.

Yep, as 32A is the max my M3 will do, being the SR+. I'm hoping it's not that though, as we are about to purchase a M3LR and I am hoping to be able to charge that at the 40A my circuit will support.

 

[3sr+buyer]

I've noticed twice now that if it gets too hot while I'm charging, the Grizzl-E charger in my garage will error (I'll see this in the Tesla app first) and start blinking one single red, similar to how it was when I first installed the Bryant 1450 outlet replacing the LeGrange one the electrician installed. The only fix is to unplug the charger, turn off the breaker, wait a few seconds and turn the breaker back on and plug the charger back in.

Anyone else seeing something similar with their 240v chargers?

Yes, with the Tesla mobile connector on a 6-50 outlet during warmer weather. The car switches down to 16A in that case. The Tesla plug head is the warmest part.

 

[ElectricNerd]

Yes, with the Tesla mobile connector on a 6-50 outlet during warmer weather. The car switches down to 16A in that case. The Tesla plug head is the warmest part.

That makes sense. I’m curious why mine isn’t auto adjusting though. Is it because it’s a 3rd party charger?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I've noticed twice now that if it gets too hot while I'm charging, the Grizzl-E charger in my garage will error (I'll see this in the Tesla app first) and start blinking one single red, similar to how it was when I first installed the Bryant 1450 outlet replacing the LeGrange one the electrician installed. The only fix is to unplug the charger, turn off the breaker, wait a few seconds and turn the breaker back on and plug the charger back in.

Anyone else seeing something similar with their 240v chargers?

Haven't happened to me on my Tesla Mobile Connector and Bryant 14-50, charging at the max 32A it is capable of. You may want to check the manual of your charger and see what the error light means (or maybe there is a forum for Grizzl-E). Your case was the first I have seen the Bryant performs worse than the Legrand, not sure what is the difference (only thing that I can see the Bryant is "less" than the Legrand is it is rated only to work with copper wires, while Legrand is also compatible with copper-clad and aluminum).

 

[3sr+buyer]

That makes sense. I’m curious why mine isn’t auto adjusting though. Is it because it’s a 3rd party charger?

Maybe it is the Tesla mobile connector that switches down to 16A and there is a Tesla-specific protocol that allows it to tell the car that it was due to heat detection at the plug?

 

[ElectricNerd]

Haven't happened to me on my Tesla Mobile Connector and Bryant 14-50, charging at the max 32A it is capable of. You may want to check the manual of your charger and see what the error light means (or maybe there is a forum for Grizzl-E). Your case was the first I have seen the Bryant perform worse than the Legrand, not sure what is the difference (only thing that I can see the Bryant is "less" than the Legrand is it is rated only to work with copper wires, while Legrand is also compatible with copper-clad and aluminum).

The error says it lost ground. It’s the same error I got when installing the Bryant in the first place and had to install the wires in the outlet differently to make it work. Turning off the breaker and unplugging the charger, turning the breaker back in and plugging the charger back in fixes it.

The lost ground also happens with the Tesla mobile charger too so I know it’s not the charger.

 

[pimfram]

I'm perpetually getting the high temperature warning on my el cheap Leviton 14-50 outlet. I'm trying to replace it with the Bryant 9450FR but my local Granger is now a week late on getting the part in. Really looking forward to not burning the house down once I replace the outlet.

 

[ElectricNerd]

I'm perpetually getting the high temperature warning on my el cheap Leviton 14-50 outlet. I'm trying to replace it with the Bryant 9450FR but my local Granger is now a week late on getting the part in. Really looking forward to not burning the house down once I replace the outlet.

Good luck, it took nearly 6 weeks to get mine in from Grainger. I'd be curious how your experience will be swapping to the Bryant. I had to install the wires turning the connections the opposite in order to get rid of a no ground issue that both the Grizzl-E and the Tesla mobile connector were throwing.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The error says it lost ground. It’s the same error I got when installing the Bryant in the first place and had to install the wires in the outlet differently to make it work. Turning off the breaker and unplugging the charger, turning the breaker back in and plugging the charger back in fixes it.

The lost ground also happens with the Tesla mobile charger too so I know it’s not the charger.

That doesn't seem thermal related, but it appears something is wrong with the connection in your outlet. I can't imagine however what kind of difference between the Bryant and Legrand would make the Bryant have this and Legrand not (other than if your wires are CCA or aluminum, which the Bryant is not speced to be compatible with). Maybe you need to do as others suggested up thread and do a continuity or resistance test with a meter, although it seems your issue is intermittent so may be hard to detect and if your panel is not next to your outlet, you can't easily do a test of the ground wiring from panel to outlet.

Is your outlet box metal or plastic? Is the receptacle grounded to the outlet box? The only other thing I can think of is if there might be differences in grounding of the receptacle. Maybe the ground wire from your panel is intermittent and it's semi-dependent on grounding through the screws that are used to attach the receptacle to the outlet box.