Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Candleflame]

Yeah, I no longer stress/care about what the vehicle reports for the range. Has zero impact on my driving habits, even on longer trips. Sure, I’d love to see my vehicle report 310 as the available miles when I move the slider to 100%. But, I’m also OK with seeing 260-270 miles.

I never charge to 100% period. There are zero real world situations where the additional mileage at 100% makes any difference in my drive/trip, compared to charging it to just 90%. So, why even bother charging it to 100% (and risk potentially harming/degrading the battery pack)?… is my philosophy.

Its needed if you have to cover distances outside the supercharger network...

 

[Candleflame]

So after a little over 2 weeks, estimated 100% (TeslaFi) range is around 292 now. I just realized there was an additional variable that I can't account for, which was software upgrade 2021.24.10 happening right around the same time I went to scheduled charging and 80%. 2018 Performance, VIN 63,xxx, and now 61K miles.

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Looks like your car has always been yoyoing... Might just be your pack or you live somewhere with very cold winters and hot summers.

There are definetely 2 types of packs. The ones which yoyo and the ones where you just lose range all the time (like mine). But where i live there is no winter. Im moving somewhere cooler enxt year so we will see

 

[Dave EV]

Wouldn't it better for the battery if you limit the charging current lat say from 32A to 20A assuming you can keep it charging for a longer period of time?

No - the change from 32A to 20A is negligible for a ~70 kWh battery pack in terms of C-rate. Actually, if you do it right, a faster charge rate can be better as it will allow for less time spent at high SOCs. So this means you have to adjust your charge start time accordingly. For example, say charging at 32A takes 3 hours and charging at 16A takes 6 hours. Ideally you set your charge starting time 3 hours later when charging at 32A.

It would be nice to be able to set an charging end-time, but without having the car condition the car at that time by using the departure timer (maybe you can? I never tried as I thought it wasn't possible).

My Model 3 LR ( September 2019 ) is losing Kwh like a crazy in last months.
Last week was at 68.6 Kwh.
I have tried to charge it to 100% and leave to that for the night to force BMS to recalibrate.
At some point it showed 101% , LOL.
Next morning nominal full pack was up to 69.4 Kwh.
Now i'm discharging 10% every day and in 2-3 days i'll reach 60% and then i'll go up again at 100%.


View attachment 712785

With only 4.17 Vmax, did the car actually finish charging? Normally Vmax should hit 4.19-4.20 V.

 

[Candleflame]

No - the change from 32A to 20A is negligible for a ~70 kWh battery pack in terms of C-rate. Actually, if you do it right, a faster charge rate can be better as it will allow for less time spent at high SOCs. So this means you have to adjust your charge start time accordingly. For example, say charging at 32A takes 3 hours and charging at 16A takes 6 hours. Ideally you set your charge starting time 3 hours later when charging at 32A.

It would be nice to be able to set an charging end-time, but without having the car condition the car at that time by using the departure timer (maybe you can? I never tried as I thought it wasn't possible).



With only 4.17 Vmax, did the car actually finish charging? Normally Vmax should hit 4.19-4.20 V.

Was wondering the same. He might have possibly have a rogue module sitting at 4.2v blocking the other modules. Maybe the bleeder circuit isnt working properly...

 

[MaxRSM]

With only 4.17 Vmax, did the car actually finish charging? Normally Vmax should hit 4.19-4.20 V.

BMS did continue to charge for one more hour...
Then stopped when the max cell voltage reached 4.192 , with a 10 mV imbalance between max and min cell voltage.

 

[AAKEE]

My Model 3 LR ( September 2019 ) is losing Kwh like a crazy in last months.
Last week was at 68.6 Kwh.
I have tried to charge it to 100% and leave to that for the night to force BMS to recalibrate.
At some point it showed 10

I wouldn’t leave my car at 100% for any longer times at all.
Balancing of the cells takes place from 90% SOC or more.
I would say that theres a lot of people hurting their batteries by trying to hard to get a higher NFP-value.

Your pack shows 8mV imbalance, that is not very much at 100% SOC.
I saw a 6mV imbalance after a charge to 90-91%, and after a couple of hours it was down to 2mV. There should not be that many hours needed from 8mV( 8 mV is fine as it is and leave the car for balancing wouldnt really be needed).
The SOC % is calculated as nominal remaining divided by nominal full pack(NFP). As NFP is a calculated value, sometimes nominal remaining can get higher than NFP, causing a >100% value.
69/68.6= 100.06% if not rounded.

 

[AAKEE]

Was wondering the same. He might have possibly have a rogue module sitting at 4.2v blocking the other modules. Maybe the bleeder circuit isnt working properly...

The picture showed cell V max 4.17V so it couldnt be that.

Max pack voltage should say 403V and min about 240V. His values seems strange( 201 and 121V) This is half the expected, probably a SMT -BMS missunderstanding issue so not a problem.

 

[Timspeed]

Apologies up front as I’m sure this has been beat to death..
For the 2021 LR; let’s say I set my cruise control at 80mph (I5 in California; LOONG empty stretch from Bay Area to LA)…if I had exactly 100% charge..doing 80mph with auto-pilot/cruise control; is asking for close to 4 hours (300 miles) out of the question?

 

[Timspeed]

Edit: I think this is in the wrong sub-forum

 

[Vincent T]

I have a 2021 LR. With 100% charge, from Bakersfield, I took 5N all the way to San Jose, via 152 and 101. 245 miles with one 5 min rest area break on hwy5. I still had 18% charge left or about 55 miles left on non aero wheels.
I was drving about 70-75mph.
On the way back, 2 days later, but driving around 85 mph most of the way, I only had about 8% left, so speed affects range greatly.

 

[Timspeed]

I have a 2021 LR. With 100% charge, from Bakersfield, I took 5N all the way to San Jose, via 152 and 101. 245 miles with one 5 min rest area break on hwy5. I still had 18% charge left or about 55 miles left on non aero wheels.
I was drving about 70-75mph.
On the way back, 2 days later, but driving around 85 mph most of the way, I only had about 8% left, so speed affects range greatly.

Thanks for that info!
I was hoping for a little more; honestly..but 250 "real world" sounds about right (that's about a solid 3 hours of driving per shot)

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks for that info!
I was hoping for a little more; honestly..but 250 "real world" sounds about right (that's about a solid 3 hours of driving per shot)

just as a side note, you asked "at 80mph" and they said at "70-75". Even though thats a small difference in speed, its probably going to be a larger difference in consumption. 80 mph is going to use quite a bit more power than 70MPH (a lot more than you might think it would).

You said "LR" and this is assuming the model 3 subforum, but I dont think you will get 300 miles driving in a model 3 driving at 70MPH, let alone 80MPH, even if you were to go from 100 to like 5%.

 

[Timspeed]

just as a side note, you asked "at 80mph" and they said at "70-75". Even though thats a small difference in speed, its probably going to be a larger difference in consumption. 80 mph is going to use quite a bit more power than 70MPH (a lot more than you might think it would).

You said "LR" and this is assuming the model 3 subforum, but I dont think you will get 300 miles driving in a model 3 driving at 70MPH, let alone 80MPH, even if you were to go from 100 to like 5%.

Daaamn; even with the “EPA Rated” 353 mile range!?
My current car (2016 Elantra) has an EPA rated 37mpg (highway) and with 175k miles logged (bought it brand new) it has done exactly that on 400 mile I5 trips, doing 80mph (which is realistically the speed you have to drive on I5). I was hoping to get CLOSE to the same range on a “tank”(charge)..but if it won’t get anywhere close to 300; that’s sad.
I guess the good part is; Vegas is 480 miles and it sounds like if I stopped exactly midway; I could make it on a charge (I have to stop once for gas in my current car; so..same/same)

 

[Vincent T]

Sorry guys, maybe I am confusing you guys. Let me rephrase; I drove 250 miles to my destination and still had about 55 miles range, so it’s more like 305 mile range for my 2021 Model 3 LR with aero wheel covers off. On the way back home, I drove about 8-10mph faster, so range was a lot less; maybe 290 range.

 

[bedoig]

Charged my M3 to 100% just before a long trip today and at 100% it still said it had 35 min remaining. Any thoughts on this? Perhaps this is the "hidden" capacity that is optically locked?

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@AAKEE @AlanSubie4Life @eivissa

Completely off topic, but somehow over 3 years I never realized you could change the wheels to show the 18's with the aero covers off. So, thanks!

 

[Jeremy3292]

Completely off topic, but somehow over 3 years I never realized you could change the wheels to show the 18's with the aero covers off. So, thanks!

Too bad they don’t have the actual aero caps they sell now as an option which are the ones I have lol

 

[ericl]

Took the battery down to 10% ish from 100%. Using actual miles driven, my 2018 M3 LR AWD gets around 345miles full charge per my driving habits. This involved going on the highway as well as local.

Scared the crap outa me the other day when I switched to miles then charged to 100% (haven't driven the M3 in months!!) and saw the 280 miles per full charge estimate. So yeah, switching the M3 to % and keeping the MS on miles.

 

[codewarrior]

Hi folks, I have a 2019 SR+ Model 3, on specification, it should have 240 miles with a full charge, I always set charging limit to 90%.
Now the odometer is 12814 miles, and for a 90% charge, driving range is 196 miles.
So I did a quick math, 196/0.9/240 = 90%, it means 10% degradation, is that normal? thanks.

 

[Ferengii]

It’s totally normal. Definitely there are people doing better than that. There are also people doing worse.

I got a hard hit on a Tesla-subforum on facebook yesterday. Someone had lost range and the question was if that was normal.
I wrote that 10% is normal for a 2 year old Model 3.

I know what I have read and seen on TMC before, but to make it clear:

Is 10% degradation(range loss on the range indicator actually) normal or is it not normal ?

I’ve lost 12% (273 of 310) range on my May 2019 M3 Long Range at 17,500 miles. According to the BatteryCompare app, that means only 13% of M3 LR at that mileage are worse than mine. Lifetime wH/m is 243. I use the Tesla HPWC and vary the charge randomly from 60% to 90%, but always keep it plugged in. I don’t commute, so the car doesn’t get driven regularly. Ive Only charged to 100% 6 times, but immediately drove off afterwards. So, I feel I’ve done everything right, but still have a very low range - comparatively speaking - to other M3 LR Teslas.

 

[Candleflame]

I’ve lost 12% (273 of 310) range on my May 2019 M3 Long Range at 17,500 miles. According to the BatteryCompare app, that means only 13% of M3 LR at that mileage are worse than mine. Lifetime wH/m is 243. I use the Tesla HPWC and vary the charge randomly from 60% to 90%, but always keep it plugged in. I don’t commute, so the car doesn’t get driven regularly. Ive Only charged to 100% 6 times, but immediately drove off afterwards. So, I feel I’ve done everything right, but still have a very low range - comparatively speaking - to other M3 LR Teslas.

Thats what ive been saying. Battery care is almost irrelevant when the main factor is battery lottery.