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ModelNforNerd
Active Member
that's why the 100kWH battery pack will be coming out soon. Tesla is not worried about cannibalizing their own sales. As long as another company isn't cannibalizing them, they'll keep doing their own thing.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
This needs to be shouted from the rooftops, so we're all finally on the same page.....
If "protecting" the upper levels of a brand were a thing, most car companies would have folded by now.
So, because the one-tank range of a Focus is longer than a Mustang's, Ford is going to decrease the range of the Focus to protect Mustang sales? No. They're 2 entirely different flavors of car, aimed at different demographics.
Tesla isn't going to stunt the Model 3 in any way just to ensure you buy a Model S.
The pre-order numbers speak for themselves. Tesla will put out TWO great cars (and an SUV). And we'll all be happy. Including Elon, because his vision of sustainable transportation will be that much closer to reality.
If "protecting" the upper levels of a brand were a thing, most car companies would have folded by now.
So, because the one-tank range of a Focus is longer than a Mustang's, Ford is going to decrease the range of the Focus to protect Mustang sales? No. They're 2 entirely different flavors of car, aimed at different demographics.
Tesla isn't going to stunt the Model 3 in any way just to ensure you buy a Model S.
The pre-order numbers speak for themselves. Tesla will put out TWO great cars (and an SUV). And we'll all be happy. Including Elon, because his vision of sustainable transportation will be that much closer to reality.
Ummmm...have you seen a ford focus and a mustang before? This is an apples an oranges comparison.
Focus is an economy car with cheap interior, weak engine, etc -- It is the granny panty of cars. Mustang is their performance car with an aggressive design.
What makes you buy the Model S over Model 3?
Speed? Well ludicrous mode is offered on M3, which will likely put it under 4 second 0-60. At a certain point, speed becomes a moot point to me. Roads in the US are 65MPH at the most in my area. The base M3 is more than sufficient to merge into traffic and give you a launch when you want some fun.
OK, well how about design? Hmm...actually i prefer the M3 design over the S in exterior design. We've yet to see the model 3 finalized interior, but if 15" screen isn't enough for you and having a 17" screen is a make or break deal in your car purchase, I guess you may be right.
Features? Well, we know M3 will have ludicrous mode, all glass roof. You could safely assume it'll have upgraded sound option and weather package. So if you won't buy a car without a bio-weapon system, that could sway you -- though, even that may be an option in the M3. The only real feature that could definitely sway you is the extra row for baby seats in the back...if you have a ton of kids.
Efficiency -- well, based on polls here, most people think you'll be able to get close to or over 300 miles per charge. On par with the Model S max mileage.
So if base model S gets 240 miles, 5.2 sec 0-60 for $76,500
and you can get a fully loaded M3, that is faster (with ludicrous), goes further, looks better and is basically even on every other feature that matters for 10K less -- how would they maintain, let alone grow the sales of the Model S?
Focus is an economy car with cheap interior, weak engine, etc -- It is the granny panty of cars. Mustang is their performance car with an aggressive design.
What makes you buy the Model S over Model 3?
Speed? Well ludicrous mode is offered on M3, which will likely put it under 4 second 0-60. At a certain point, speed becomes a moot point to me. Roads in the US are 65MPH at the most in my area. The base M3 is more than sufficient to merge into traffic and give you a launch when you want some fun.
OK, well how about design? Hmm...actually i prefer the M3 design over the S in exterior design. We've yet to see the model 3 finalized interior, but if 15" screen isn't enough for you and having a 17" screen is a make or break deal in your car purchase, I guess you may be right.
Features? Well, we know M3 will have ludicrous mode, all glass roof. You could safely assume it'll have upgraded sound option and weather package. So if you won't buy a car without a bio-weapon system, that could sway you -- though, even that may be an option in the M3. The only real feature that could definitely sway you is the extra row for baby seats in the back...if you have a ton of kids.
Efficiency -- well, based on polls here, most people think you'll be able to get close to or over 300 miles per charge. On par with the Model S max mileage.
So if base model S gets 240 miles, 5.2 sec 0-60 for $76,500
and you can get a fully loaded M3, that is faster (with ludicrous), goes further, looks better and is basically even on every other feature that matters for 10K less -- how would they maintain, let alone grow the sales of the Model S?
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JeffK
Well-Known Member
Some models are better than others last time I checked the Ford Focus RS goes 0-60 mph in 4.7 seconds with 350 hp for $36k. It easily beats the mustang ecoboost in performance.
A Focus RS appeals to those who would buy a WRX STI or a Golf GTI or Golf R. Those same people really wouldn't buy a mustang, it's a different demographic.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
People have different tastes. People have different needs. People have different income levels.
I'd love a Model S. But it would be too tight a fit in my garage. No one wants to worry about parking their car in their own house.
Maybe a better analogy would have been Jetta/A4, or Avalon/Lexus ES 350. Although, both of those examples, the "competing brands" are on the same chassis. The point is, people who were going to buy the A4 over the Jetta would do it anyway, and same for the Avalon/Lexus.
Another thing to consider is that some people see the Tesla as a status symbol. Maybe they don't want to be seen in the "baby Tesla".
Elon has gone on and on about how great a car this will be, and what it will have. I don't think he's looking to neuter it to protect the S.
Comfort, size and prestige. The same reason people buy an E class over a C class or a BMW 5 series over a 3 series.
Yeah, having range bragging rights for the S is not reason enough for Tesla to stunt the 3's range. If you disregard range the reasons to buy an S over are 3 are just as you describe. I think Tesla will definitely try to max out the 3's range with the largest battery option. At the very least it will at least match the max range of the S's largest battery option I think.
My guess it that eventually there will not be any battery options, or maybe just two. Say 250 or 500 mi.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Exactly. Since the Model 3 is the car to show all the other OEMs how it's done, and not as much of a "niche" vehicle as the S or X, this will be where they try to outdo the Bolts and Leafs....
I think prestige comes from being better. Just being more expensive, doesn't justify prestige to me.
Marketing M3 as an affordable electric car for the masses somewhat implies it is not as good as the S. I guess that is what I'm caught up on. And if the M3 gets 95% of the features of the car many tesla owners paid twice as much for, I wouldn't blame S owners for being upset.
Marketing M3 as an affordable electric car for the masses somewhat implies it is not as good as the S. I guess that is what I'm caught up on. And if the M3 gets 95% of the features of the car many tesla owners paid twice as much for, I wouldn't blame S owners for being upset.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
The same thing has happened to Audi and Benz owners when those brands went "down market" 2 years ago to introduce smaller sedans.
In the end though, all it did was strengthen the brands. I, having an A3, would likely have moved into a pricier Audi in a year or 2....had Elon not come along and meddled in the market segment. LOL
physicsfita
Member
I would be very surprised if a smaller, more aerodynamic car didn't at least match the range of its larger, less aerodynamic sibling. That's why I'm going for 290+.
I think it is unlikely that Tesla intends to protect the Model S by deliberately making the Model 3 less useful.
That being said, even if Tesla is concerned about cannibalization, most people are likely to look at the range like they look at at MPG. They expect the smaller, cheaper car to get better MPG. If anything, they will be confused if this is not the case.
That being said, even if Tesla is concerned about cannibalization, most people are likely to look at the range like they look at at MPG. They expect the smaller, cheaper car to get better MPG. If anything, they will be confused if this is not the case.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
I don't know, I think that people that are buying an EV understand that range is pretty much everything when it comes to an electric vehicle and that range comes at a price (not saying Ludicrous mode isn't cool). After all, the Model S has been set up that way from the start. Bigger range, bigger battery, bigger price.
Dan
This. Firms can't get away with it for too long, because competition will come in and make it difficult to sustain. Tesla has to stay ahead of competitors and not fall behind to avoid letting them win. The supercharger network is a big piece of it, but they need to get to scale quickly. The Model S/Roadster/X days are not what will make this a great company - they've been losing money for a long time. The 3 and other cars in the future are what they have to win on to be sustainable.
For what it's worth, MotorTrend had this to say:
From Tesla Model 3: Will it Be a Good Family Car? - Motor Trend
How disappointing low estimate, hope they got that wrong even though it seems they seem to be quite spot on regarding the measurements.
From Tesla Model 3: Will it Be a Good Family Car? - Motor Trend
How disappointing low estimate, hope they got that wrong even though it seems they seem to be quite spot on regarding the measurements.
It seems like a strangely low estimate given that the larger and heavier Model S 70D gets 240 miles of range, a Model 3 with 14% more battery would get only 4% more range? If the base Model 3 is rear wheel drive and gets 215 miles on even a 60kWh battery, than a dual motor 3 with an 80kWh battery should get at least 290 miles.
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