Might order my 3 soon, very begrudgingly.

[PoitNarf]

As others have said, if this situation rubs you the wrong way so much then buy a different car. Try and put yourself in Tesla’s shoes for just a minute. They’re maybe producing what, around 1000 cars a week now? They’re spending money left and right trying to get their production ramp to the levels they want. Lots of capital expenditures on other future vehicles at the moment as well. Tesla needs to be profitable to survive. Do you want to purchase a car from a company that won’t survive for another few years? Tesla’s “greed” as you put it is 100% necessary right now. They need cash to survive. Say they are producing 1000 Model 3s a week right now. That’s $35 million in Model 3s a week if they sold them all at the base $35K price. Now let’s say that they have a 20% profit margin on the base model, so that would be $7 million in profit a week for selling the base model. Instead they are making about 1000 a week of the initial production version which probably is averaging around $49K per car. The profit margin on these cars is likely higher than what the base model will be, let’s call it 25%. So 1000 cars a week at an average of $49K per car at a 25% profit margin would be around $12 million in profit a week. Offering the fully loaded initial production version first is allowing them to take in at least $5 million more a week at current production levels as opposed to them producing just the base model. Given their current cash situation and crazy expenditures for the production ramp they need that extra profit per vehicle. These higher profit margin sales will only get better for them as the production ramp starts increasing to the levels they are shooting for.

You’re not really seeing the big picture here. Tesla is bleeding cash. They need a lot of profit right now to ensure their future. This is not “greed”, it is a financial necessity for them. I do not want to buy a Model 3 to only have Tesla fold in 3 or 4 years because they couldn’t turn a sustained profit. I fully support what they are doing now to ensure that they will be around for a long long time but also hope that they will offer the base model as soon as they are able to do so.

 

[Gen3Joe]

You're complaining is irrelevant.

Actual decisions on price are made based on demand. If you truly wanted to prove your point, and believed many others felt the same, you wouldn't buy the car. That's the only way to get them to drop the price.

Do you get that? By buying the car, you are telling then to keep the price high.

Money talks.

This.

Also OP, Tesla is just trying to stay alive so they can continue to sell game changing cars. Does this reality suck for some eager customers? Yes but that doesn't mean Tesla is trying to screw anyone. I waited in line with a guy that's a HUGE Tesla fan and can only afford the base Model 3 including tax credit. I'm sure he is disappointed also but he's not on the forum bashing Tesla over it.

 

[Gen3Joe]

Also a MacRumors forum reader here, and I think I can say with a high level of confidence that TMC's future is what MacRumors looks like today.

Apple sold its newest iPhones with a base of 16GB storage for many years (through the 6s, I believe), and made the next storage tier 64 GB, for $100 extra. People were infuriated, because 16GB was rapidly becoming insufficient given the growing space requirements of iOS and increasingly bloated apps. Many people calculated that 16GB was too small for their needs, but that 64GB was too much, and angrily denounced Apple for not offering a 32GB entry point as a way to boost ASP by pushing people to 64GB.

None of this seems to have dented Apple's sales in the least.

This is a great example of the difference between Apple and Tesla. Apple does stuff like that because they can. Tesla is doing what they are doing because they have to... for survival.

 

[MXWing]

Maybe if Tesla were more up front about their reasons, that would help. Instead of saying they are making only a few configurations now to "minimize complexity", they should just say "Dudes. We spent billions to design these cars and we need some financial recompense ASAP". I could have more respect for that.

Because it doesn't make sense to me, that if the battery production is just getting under way, that they would choose to build the battery that requires a lot more cells in every car. And why include the extra interior stuff and leather and power seats and all that if the goal is to keep it simple and quick?

Must be the money.

Some things are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to increase margins AND minimize complexity at the same time. Imagine a basic high school MC=MR graph. That's where the Model 3 production is sitting at.

They can't make -enough- of what they have right now anyway. Now you want to add ANOTHER style pack (of a new cell format). You want to add another interior style (which includes another ROOF design).

If Tesla could have rolled it out on time, they would be selling $75K Performance AWD Model 3s right now and not $55K ones. It's 55K because people are changing colors and adding EAP at the minimum typically.

$20,000 across every Model 3 that gets PUP/LR/EAP vs none of that makes a difference for increasing margins.

I took the time to break it all down to you. There's no more mystery. If you are still butt hurt about Tesla's greed, just transfer your reservation to me so I can put you out of your misery. If you want compensation for your time in line, I can add in the $15/hr you are making as well.

Don't put yourself through for a future letdown. Your first new forum topic after taking delivery is going to be

"Elon LIED. Model 3 is not a spaceship like he promised".

 

[tashtibet]

Actually, I feel that we are being forced into it. Tesla knows that many people have been waiting 2+ years, and they are taking advantage of that to extract more PROFIT from us. Not everyone will pay the extra cash, but some will, and Tesla is using that to their advantage in an unethical way. Maybe if we had the choice of taking one obscenely overpriced option or the other, instead of both, it wouldn't be so bad.

There's no way Tesla can justify a $9000 cost for the big battery. The extra parts simply don't cost that much. There's a good $6500 to $7000 of profit there.

Subaru STI cost $10,000.00 more than WRX just because of very few features like HP.
So, better take $1K refund than be a snitch here.

 

[MXWing]

Subaru STI cost $10,000.00 more than WRX just because of very few features like HP.
So, better take $1K refund than be a snitch here.

Tesla uncorked my Model X for FREE reducing my 0-60 by 1 second while under NO obligation to do so. Even gave me a Tesla loaner to use during the day while they did it. Think we can lobby Subaru for some STI performance tuning for free?

If it's their scam and greed to make me buy more Tesla cars in the future I think it's working and I'm too dumb to see "their game".

 

[Stretch2727]

Pittsburgh non-owner, reserved in the first 10 minutes on 3/31. Got my configuration email a few weeks ago. I didn't place an order for a 3, because I don't need or want the outrageously overpriced options, the LR battery and PUP interior. Then Tesla announces that the $35,000 configuration that Elon promised us won't "be available" for another year.

After some thinking, I decided to go with a CPO Model S instead, but after missing the order on one car, and not being approved for enough financing on another, I started working the numbers. If I got a $45K CPO S, kept it a year, then bought a $35K Model 3, then between depreciation and paying loan fees and sales taxes twice, it wouldn't be much of a good deal.

So, very begrudgingly, I will order my 3 as is with the $49,000 configuration that is being forced upon us. Only thing I need is an ok from the finance place, so I should know by monday or tuesday about that.

Tesla is reminding me of when I lived in the SFV in Los Angeles for several years, and you couldn't go near some supermarkets or 7-11's without some panhandler trying to get change off of you. Tesla is the panhandler now. They are saying "Want a 3? Fine, but you can only have one if you order these extra options that are mostly PROFIT for us".

The word "option" implies that these items are OPTIONAL. Forcing us to get them to get the car is not optional.

Tesla, for your greed, I feel that you owe me more for my $49,000. Maybe a performance upgrade so that my 3 can pull sub 4.5 0-60 runs and high 12's in the quarter mile. At least that's something.

Some of you may be saying that I should just keep my current car and wait to order a 3. True, but at the moment I have a guy lined up to buy my current Challenger R/T at a price nearly $2K over the "excellent" condition value on kbb. I think he has lots of money and he likes the car. So if I don't sell to him, I will lose thousands by selling to anyone else.

First World Problems!

Tesla is not doing this to be greedy. They are limiting the configurations to make more cars faster. They are obviously struggling with the ramp. Think of where we would be if they had offered the AWD, short range battery, no premium interior and the various roof options.

You probably would not even had the offer to configure at this point.

 

[Electroman]

I sympathize with OP.

In a similar situation where I like the LR range and EAP and willing to pay every dime for it, but forcing $5K PUP that I absolutely don't care for is more than annoying, and made me a bit angry too . It pushed the price to a sub-$60k Model S CPO, and unfortunately there is nothing that is worth even taking a 2nd look in CPO.

So here I am begrudgingly confirming my 3LR after sitting on the invite for several weeks now. I need a call in less than 2 months

And my luck, a nice CPO would show up for the same price tomorrow..

 

[SpiceWare]

So, very begrudgingly, I will order my 3 as is with the $49,000 configuration that is being forced upon us.

Somebody has a gun to your head? If not, nobody's forcing you to do anything.

I will give you firsthand experience. ...They were in demand and EVERY dealer added a $10,000 premium. EVERY dealer. Damn, irritating. But I paid it for my first black 'Vette and loved it.

Another firsthand experience.

Back in '99 I was staying with my folks in Lake Jackson (about a 50 miles south of Houston) while my home was being built. Late one night, after hanging out with friends after work, I was driving back to their place and the timing belt in my CRX broke about 5 miles from home. Went back the next morning with a tow truck, and discovered somebody'd broken into it and demolished the dash trying to get the radio out. They failed, but did so much damage the insurance company totaled it. So I was without a car.


This was when the S2000 was released, which I really wanted. Started to check with the dealers and every one added a markup of $5K or higher. That markup didn't result in a better interior, sound system, larger gas tank*, etc. like with a First Production Model 3.

In my case I decided the markup was too much, in part because I'd soon need to furnish my home (only had stuff for a small 1 bedroom apartment), so I bought a used del Sol. It was an awesome car - my only regret was I couldn't find a VTEC model


And a few years later I did get my first S2000.


* larger gas tank would be nice - I get about 220 miles with each fill-up.

 

[McRat]

Whether or not you agree with the OP, they are right about one thing that is very hard to disagree with, which is honesty. You can hit disagree but it won't change the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with price, delivery, queue order, production claims, etc. It's not a failure to predict the future accurately. It's what is known to common folk as lying. And it not even debatable. It's a character flaw that comes from the desire to deceive people when it comes to money which is all too common today.

One of the classic examples is the Model 3 PUP 'option'. It is not the only example but it's highly visible and current.

The PUP interior is base equipment. It is not an option as the Monroney sticker says it is. It is base equipment that adds weight and complexity and perhaps noise to the car. You cannot order a PUP delete car (some car companies will allow you remove a feature, but you save no money).

Documenting PUP as an option is ... get ready... here it comes ... Dishonest. It not done accidentally, it's not a misunderstanding, it's not dynamically defined.

Why? Because the word option has a meaning when it comes to cars. It's not ambiguous. It's not a 'game-changing-paradigm-shifting-nextgen-faux-pseudo-vegan' definition. It's a car word that has a car meaning. It doesn't spin. It doesn't change by retweetering it on farcebook. It's not a fake-news-word. It is a definition all by itself. "Is there a convertible option?" is not ambiguous.

Car buyers know what the word Option means. They knew it 110 years ago, and they know it this morning.

PUP is exactly as optional as doors are on the Model 3. That is to be understood as 'not optional, no-how, no-way, get-lost, drop-dead, take-it-or-leave-it, standard base equipment. And yes, they know what they wrote on the Monroney and knew it was not truthful. Why did they do it? Politics? Not exactly...

Proof? Look at what is an option and what is base equipment on a Model S or Model X. Tesla knows the difference between base equipment and options. They chose to deceive buyers when it was time for the Model 3 pricing sheet. They listed base equipment as optional.

What do other companies do? They list mandatory equipment as base equipment, not optional equipment. Instead they have trim levels when they want to package more base equipment into a car. This way, if you can not find a stripped Camry, at least the Monroney on the up-trim Camry isn't just a lie to deceive you.

This issue has zero effect on me, and is not unique. I don't actually expect Tesla Motors to hold the same standards of transparency as other automakers. That's OK.

 

[MXWing]

Whether or not you agree with the OP, they are right about one thing that is very hard to disagree with, which is honesty. You can hit disagree but it won't change the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with price, delivery, queue order, production claims, etc. It's not a failure to predict the future accurately. It's what is known to common folk as lying. And it not even debatable. It's a character flaw that comes from the desire to deceive people when it comes to money which is all too common today.

One of the classic examples is the Model 3 PUP 'option'. It is not the only example but it's highly visible and current.

The PUP interior is base equipment. It is not an option as the Monroney sticker says it is. It is base equipment that adds weight and complexity and perhaps noise to the car. You cannot order a PUP delete car (some car companies will allow you remove a feature, but you save no money).

Documenting PUP as an option is ... get ready... here it comes ... Dishonest. It not done accidentally, it's not a misunderstanding, it's not dynamically defined.

Why? Because the word option has a meaning when it comes to cars. It's not ambiguous. It's not a 'game-changing-paradigm-shifting-nextgen-faux-pseudo-vegan' definition. It's a car word that has a car meaning. It doesn't spin. It doesn't change by retweetering it on farcebook. It's not a fake-news-word. It is a definition all by itself. "Is there a convertible option?" is not ambiguous.

Car buyers know what the word Option means. They knew it 110 years ago, and they know it this morning.

PUP is exactly as optional as doors are on the Model 3. That is to be understood as 'not optional, no-how, no-way, get-lost, drop-dead, take-it-or-leave-it, standard base equipment. And yes, they know what they wrote on the Monroney and knew it was not truthful. Why did they do it? Politics? Not exactly...

Proof? Look at what is an option and what is base equipment on a Model S or Model X. Tesla knows the difference between base equipment and options. They chose to deceive buyers when it was time for the Model S pricing sheet. They listed base equipment as optional.

What do other companies do? They list mandatory equipment as base equipment, not optional equipment. Instead they have trim levels when they want to package more base equipment into a car. This way, if you can not find a stripped Camry, at least the Monroney on the up-trim Camry isn't just a lie to deceive you.

This issue has zero effect on me, and is not unique. I don't actually expect Tesla Motors to hold the same standards of transparency as other automakers. That's OK.

While I do disagree with you, I find it more productive to try and refute your argument than click a button passive-aggressively.

You do realize as soon as the non-pup Model 3 is for sale, your entire argument is invalidated right? No non-pup now, does not mean no non-pup FOREVER.

I have a non-pup Model X which was not available to day 1 buyers either.

The big picture is whether or not Tesla is going to be around in five years to service your $35,000 Model 3 that you were so happy to get TODAY but can't service TOMORROW.

Some will disagree with me but personally I would have considered if I was in charge of manufacturing at Tesla:

Advertise the car as a $40K car, not a $35K car - include EAP as "standard". You can't just sell all that expensive hardware without recouping the cost at least through software.

Personally, I think you really know your stuff and are very knowledgeable about your particular information domains. The problem is you are so stuck on your own code of honor that you cant extrapolate it to a macro economy.

When you are -4.01 EPS and $8,000 cash burn per minute we should be giving them every chance to maximize revenue. I wouldn't call that being dishonest.

Elon Musk
Tesla
TSLA

all have different wants, needs and realities.

 

[ForeverFree]

Actually, I feel that we are being forced into it. Tesla knows that many people have been waiting 2+ years, and they are taking advantage of that to extract more PROFIT from us. Not everyone will pay the extra cash, but some will, and Tesla is using that to their advantage in an unethical way. Maybe if we had the choice of taking one obscenely overpriced option or the other, instead of both, it wouldn't be so bad.

There's no way Tesla can justify a $9000 cost for the big battery. The extra parts simply don't cost that much. There's a good $6500 to $7000 of profit there.

Uh, folks. "Greedy" Tesla continues to operate at a huge loss.

Why is it wrong for a for-profit business to at least strive not to be overwhelmed by its losses?

The Model 3 is an amazing car at $49K ... and will be at $35K when they can afford to release it.

I live in the SFV in CA, and yes, there are panhandlers outside grocery stores. One could either be resentful of them ... or empathetic ... plus grateful not to be in their shoes.

 

[McRat]

You do realize as soon as the non-pup Model 3 is for sale, your entire argument is invalidated right? No non-pup now, does not mean no non-pup FOREVER.

I have a non-pup Model X which was not available to day 1 buyers either.

The big picture is whether or not Tesla is going to be around in five years to service your $35,000 Model 3 that you were so happy to get TODAY but can't service TOMORROW.

Some will disagree with me but personally I would have considered if I was in charge of manufacturing at Tesla:

Advertise the car as a $40K car, not a $35K car - include EAP as "standard". You can't just sell all that expensive hardware without recouping the cost at least through software.

What non-PUP? It could be available in the future. But you will notice they have never said anything on the subject yet. AWD, RHD, Performance Variant, SR versions, Exports, EAP, FSD, have all had mentions. PUP-as-optional has not been mentioned AFAIK.

If Tesla does not sell a non-PUP ever nobody could blame them from a business perspective.

Packaging the EAP/FSD hardware in cars not sold with the software is a business choice. Not a very good one IMO, but a choice.
You do have the Choice to select the EAP and FSD options if you don't believe in them. So they can call them options.

The Model 3LR should have been sold as a Model 3LR FE - includes 75kWh battery, RWD, PUP as standard. That would be honest. They do not know at this point if a 3LR will ever have PUP as optional.

When Tesla sold Signature Editions, they were pretty clear on the subject IIRC. What you would get and what was optional.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Kind of understand the OP. He wants the best deal in the world buying his car, but is super gleeful about finding a sucker buyer for his current car at $2,000 over market value. Tesla is greedy, but he is not (of course)

On the other hand, I had the most amazing experience yesterday at the LA Tesla Club Magic Castle run. Got to see 4 Model 3's and their owners. Everyone of them was over the Moon about their ownership experienced. They LOVED their Model 3s. One of the guys was a pretty big fellow. I asked him how he fit inside his 3, and he said he fit much better than in a S. Did not expect that answer. A beautiful lady, drivng an equally beautiful Red Model 3 simply beamed when asked how she liked her car. Let me sit in it, and I was blown away at how forward looking this interior is, while still feeling comfortable as an automobile.

Not buying a 3, or feeling forced to buy one, would be the furtherst away from how these people feel.

From an economic standpoint, buying a better equipped Model 3, and getting the tax credit, against waiting for the base model to become available in a year or so (when you would be getting your tax credit) is not economically sound thinking. Get most of your extra cost back at resale time, so the net cost will be similar.

Tesla is not being greedy with these early cars. The first ones will cost them much more to produce, so adding some options will only help to compensate for these early releases.

As a side note, the OP can begin to get advantages of his tax credit immediately. Simply reduce your withholding on every paycheck. Will get additional cash every paycheck, and end up with no additional liability when filing next year.

Time to order the car, and can the attitude.

 

[McRat]

Kind of understand the OP. He wants the best deal in the world buying his car, but is super gleeful about finding a sucker buyer for his current car at $2,000 over market value. Tesla is greedy, but he is not (of course)

On the other hand, I had the most amazing experience yesterday at the LA Tesla Club Magic Castle run. Got to see 4 Model 3's and their owners. Everyone of them was over the Moon about their ownership experienced. They LOVED their Model 3s. One of the guys was a pretty big fellow. I asked him how he fit inside his 3, and he said he fit much better than in a S. Did not expect that answer. A beautiful lady, drivng an equally beautiful Red Model 3 simply beamed when asked how she liked her car. Let me sit in it, and I was blown away at how forward looking this interior is, while still feeling comfortable as an automobile.

Not buying a 3, or feeling forced to buy one, would be the furtherst away from how these people feel.

From an economic standpoint, buying a better equipped Model 3, and getting the tax credit, against waiting for the base model to become available in a year or so (when you would be getting your tax credit) is not economically sound thinking. Get most of your extra cost back at resale time, so the net cost will be similar.

Tesla is not being greedy with these early cars. The first ones will cost them much more to produce, so adding some options will only help to compensate for these early releases.

As a side note, the OP can begin to get advantages of his tax credit immediately. Simply reduce your withholding on every paycheck. Will get additional cash every paycheck, and end up with no additional liability when filing next year.

Time to order the car, and can the attitude.

You are one of the less than 2% of people who tried to buy a Model 3 and was successful over the last 2 years.

Statistically, you are a blip. Fewer than 1/2 Model 3 reservations in the US will drive a Model 3 this year. Perhaps fewer than 25% unless there is a dramatic change.

So yes, one of the extremely rare Model 3 buyers is perhaps happier with their Model 3 than the extremely common Model 3 buyer who is unlikely to see one prior to 2019 or even 2020.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What non-PUP? It could be available in the future. But you will notice they have never said anything on the subject yet. AWD, RHD, Performance Variant, SR versions, Exports, EAP, FSD, have all had mentions. PUP-as-optional has not been mentioned AFAIK.

If Tesla does not sell a non-PUP ever nobody could blame them from a business perspective.

Packaging the EAP/FSD hardware in cars not sold with the software is a business choice. Not a very good one IMO, but a choice.
You do have the Choice to select the EAP and FSD options if you don't believe in them. So they can call them options.

The Model 3LR should have been sold as a Model 3LR FE - includes 75kWh battery, RWD, PUP as standard. That would be honest. They do not know at this point if a 3LR will ever have PUP as optional.

When Tesla sold Signature Editions, they were pretty clear on the subject IIRC. What you would get and what was optional.

Coming up with random names like FE will only cause more consumer confusion, since Tesla never had that convention in the first place. I don't think that is any more honest or even a good idea at all. Tesla had made it clear those options are mandatory at the current stage of production. That's all the honesty they need.

Tesla has made it clear that they have every intention to release an SR and a non-PUP interior. That's why they set LR and PUP as options with a set price tag.. We can complain about it if they end up never releasing those, but it's very unlikely.

 

[Dexterryu]

Every bit of cash Tesla is getting they are re-investing and/or spending towards getting production up.

That said, if you don't want the longer range battery then just wait for the options/features/price that you want. No one has a gun to your head saying that you must buy it.

Also, if you don't like Tesla's business strategy you have other options.

 

[timk225]

How about the fact that the SR battery was due to come out this spring and then Tesla pushed it back a year? The quarterly earnings report was worse than expected?

Since Elon is running both SpaceX and Tesla, here's a fund raising idea. SpaceX is kicking ass right now in its field. Make a special edition of the Model 3 called "The SpaceX limited edition". The special SpaceX equipment added to the car consists of a SpaceX badge or decal on the dashboard. Nothing else. Have SpaceX buy 100 of them for a million bucks each. Then SpaceX can park them all in a lot and write them off in a year. I'm not a tax person, so I have no idea about the money and tax side of this.

I was out doing things today, and drove by the Tesla Service Center up in Wexford to look at a 3 if there were any there. There was only one, a silver one #6157, and it was UNLOCKED (?). Imagine my surprise when I pushed the door handle and it opened! I thought they auto-locked when you walked away with the key? I looked at the car, and compared its silver paint to the pearl white S parked next to it. The silver isn't bad, but I think I'll stick with pearl white. Either color will cost me ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. I even parked my Challenger R/T next to the 3 and got out to look and compare, and the 3 is quite a bit smaller externally.

One of my "maybe" plans is that I could buy the $49K 3, and in a year when the $35K 3 comes out, trade mine in for a lower payment. I guess that might work as a suitable compromise to not being able to get a base 3 now.

And I like what people wrote about the window sticker listing things as options when they are not, currently. Tesla should list the PUP and big battery as base equipment now, and change the sticker when they change option availability.

A credit union offered me "X" amount for a car loan on Thursday. I wrote back and asked for "X+5000" to make it easier for me to get it. I should have an answer tomorrow, and if they say ok, I will be ordering my 3 (yes, still begrudgingly) tomorrow evening.

 

[McRat]

Coming up with random names like FE ...

Oppss... Signature Edition (SE). Or P85+ or 70 or 75D or 100D or P100D, etc.

Yes, Tesla names their cars based on their content. Always have?

 

[Surfer]

So it is now unethical to provide a product that people want. Gotcha.
I second @ninefiveone - if you are unhappy buying the car, then don't. Problem solved.

Problem not solved. The $35K car has not been delivered. "And ofcourse it will cost $35K...." Elon Musk

Elon is just a blowhard that can't fulfill his words. Moving delivery of the $35K car by 3 quarters at the last moment shows Tesla never had a way to deliver the $35K car when they announced it.
Elon is lying to shareholders and deposit holders. So what if he "fixes" it later. Misleading consumers and stock holders is illegal.
No one lost money on "Pharma Bro" but he is going to jail for 7 years due to misleading investors.

Elon is "Electro Bro"