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Model 3 Battery Size

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I think the Model 3 will have the 70KWh pack. They will retire that pack on the Model S and make the base Model S an 85KWh pack with an upgrade to a 105KWh pack. Those are my thoughts. Model S is paving the way for the Model 3. They would be dumb to start over with R&D for the Model 3, at least for the batteries.

The Model 3 is supposedly 20% smaller than Model S - aaand 20% off a 85K pack is 68K.
Economies of scale keep being touted as part of the cost reductions as well as not having to redevelop already proven tech.
So does that mean we will see "approximately" 70K pack in Model 3 rather than creating a whole new pack?
 
I think the Model 3 will have the 70KWh pack. They will retire that pack on the Model S and make the base Model S an 85KWh pack with an upgrade to a 105KWh pack. Those are my thoughts. Model S is paving the way for the Model 3. They would be dumb to start over with R&D for the Model 3, at least for the batteries.

It might have _a_ 70kWh pack, but not _the_ 70kWh pack, since it's wouldn't fit.
 
I predict 2 battery options at launch. One giving 200-250 miles of range, and another giving 300-350. With the forecast quantitative improvement in Supercharger infrastructure, the shorter-range battery should more than meet the majority of my needs.

Those look like good targets to me. Could be 50 kWh and 75 kWh. I also think the Model S 70D will go away and a 105/110 kWh big battery will appear for Model S, some time around when Model 3 comes out.
 
1) A 50 kWh battery pack will not allow a 200 mile range in a performance oriented vehicle of the dimensions and configuration of a BMW 3-Series. You would need to build a two-seater that weighed less than the Fiat 500e to have a hope of reaching that range with such a small capacity.

2) Since the Model ≡ is an electric car, can have a longer wheelbase even if its overall length were smaller. Thus it could be engineered to carry the same size battery packs as Generation II vehicles.
 
I predict 2 battery options at launch. One giving 200-250 miles of range, and another giving 300-350. With the forecast quantitative improvement in Supercharger infrastructure, the shorter-range battery should more than meet the majority of my needs.

I completely agree with you. Probably a $10k difference, just as speculative guessed based on Model S battery pricing.
 
Can some current owners weigh in with some real world calculations. How many kwhs does it take to charge a 50 kwh model 3 battery? Am I being a simpleton? Can I expect to run up a 50 kwh charge from my utility to charge my Model 3 50 kwh battery?
 
Wow, jackl. Simply wow. You actually asked that question. You figure it out.

Here is another brain buster for you. If you are driving 80 miles per hour, how long will it take to go 80 miles? Think hard!

While the alternating current transformer is arguably one of the most efficient machines ever devised, it experiences losses which impact power conversion calculations. It is also true that solar power inverters, grounded (transformer based) systems experience losses in power conversion. More recently, ungrounded (transformerless) solar systems have become popular. “The most obvious benefit of a transformerless architecture is higher inverter efficiency.” As an example, the weighted CEC efficiency of Advanced Energy’s transformerless Solaron 250 kW inverter is 97.5%, which is 1% higher than that of the company’s transformer-isolated PVP250kW inverter.

In my view these calculations are simple arithmetic, but determining system size will impact performance for twenty years. So yeah, I want to split hairs.

My hope was to solicit feedback from owners with "real world experience" regarding metered charging of their EVs.

Is anal-retentive hyphenated?
 
It is a valid question because there are loses in the charger and household wiring.

For charging, you optimize efficiency with higher voltage, lower current, and thicker wires. You will use more than 50kWh to fill an empty 50kWh battery. If you are on a barely to code 120V outlet on an extension cord, you're probably losing 40% to I2R loses and conversion loses. If you're on a 240 outlet with an oversized 4 gauge wire charging at only 20A, you're losing less than 5%.
 
Wow, jackl. Simply wow. You actually asked that question. You figure it out.

Here is another brain buster for you. If you are driving 80 miles per hour, how long will it take to go 80 miles? Think hard!

Your reputation on these fourms is less than stellar. C'mon, man.

Oh, and to all, this is an extraordinarily old thread that was bumped up. There is another battery related thread on the first page that should be used instead.
 
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Can some current owners weigh in with some real world calculations. How many kwhs does it take to charge a 50 kwh model 3 battery? Am I being a simpleton? Can I expect to run up a 50 kwh charge from my utility to charge my Model 3 50 kwh battery?
Not an easy thing to calculate for a number of reasons. Firstly few charging sessions are from zero to 100%, and the stated size of the battery is only an indication of its capacity on the day it was made as with time and cycles the capacity fades. How much is lost due to charging inefficiencies is fairly minor in comparison to changes in efficiency due to weather, terrain and driving style along with vampire loss whilst parked.
As a Model S 85 owner I can tell you that I am averaging about 205 Wh/km but I have seen as good as 145 and as bad as 400 plus. Electricity in Australia where I live in expensive at about $0.30 per KWh, so (1000/205) X $0.30 = 16.26 cents per kilometre plus about 3 km a day in vampire losses. So 16 cents X 365 days = $58.40 divided by annual mileage of circa 15000km = 0.04 cents a km. So total energy costs for me 16.3 cents per Km. Multiply by 1.61 km per mile = 26.24 cents per mile.
So. Model 3 owner in the USA on cheap electricity should easily beat this by a significant margin.
 
Let's say your current car has a 15 gallon fuel tank. How many gallons do suppose might come out at the pump to fill it from empty ?

The battery is similar, although ~ 12% is lost en-route from the wall mostly due to AC to DC conversion.
Yeah... Though it seems the EPA treats electric vehicle charging as if you are spilling electrons on the floor of your garage during the process. Looks as though they estimate as much as 18%-to-20% 'spillage' in that regard.