EVNow
Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with any EV adoption delay. They'll happily make EVs instead of ICE.
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People always forget about the Tesla SC network. Nobody else has it and therefore no matter how good a Toyota EV will be, those owners will have many more concerns about long drives than Tesla owners.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Absolutely I agree with you 100%.People always forget about the Tesla SC network. Nobody else has it and therefore no matter how good a Toyota EV will be, those owners will have many more concerns about long drives than Tesla owners.
The bolt would be a much better car if it had a equivalent SC network as Tesla does.
Indeed the Tesla SC network is selling Tesla cars by itself - IMHO. AND the SC network reached the 1K mark last month. Congratulations Tesla.
People always forget about the Tesla SC network. Nobody else has it and therefore no matter how good a Toyota EV will be, those owners will have many more concerns about long drives than Tesla owners.
I'm not sure people forget that.
The reality just is, the real paradigm shift in BEV use is the home/work charging. For many people, 90%, perhaps close to 100% of the time charging overnight or over working day is sufficient.
Long-distance charging is a chore, even with Tesla's network. It is not a strong suit of BEVs anyway. But luckily many people don't really need long-distance driving that much...
A much, much, much bigger hindrance is that pretty much only Tesla sells large-battery BEVs at this time. Large battery will make the everyday driving easier, because you don't have to plan small detours and not even remember to charge daily...
Garlan Garner
Banned
Indeed long distance SC'ing may be a challenge, however imagine for a moment if it didn't exist.
All batteries and drive motor units are made inhouse? Most engines and transmissions are.
I do, where I live it doesn't cover much and where it is available suitably, the charge time rarely works for me. I end up taking the ICE for many long distances, but then those are quite rare anyway...
No matter, people bought Teslas even before Superchargers where installed anywhere. People even buy commuting EVs with small batteries (with large batteries the commuting radius grows massively)...
Not everyone just drives long distance - and some who do, for them Supercharging won't solve it anyway.
Now, this does not mean there aren't people for whom Supercharging is a mandatory requirement. Sure there are. But in the meanwhile there is plenty of market to saturate with large-battery BEVs (of which there are pretty much none but Teslas today) even without SpC equivalents...
Bingo. I have little care for SCN since it is going to be more expensive than home charging and almost as expensive as refueling our toyota hybrid. I might as well take our hybrid on ultra long distance driving as it will be more convenient and will just cost a tad more for the few long distance travel I need, if at all. It is not free for Model 3 owners anyway. It is free for S and X owners because they prepaid for charging in the way of a price premium.
Other charging networks will catch up at least in terms of users per charging station. Maybe 2k on the SCN for 400k Teslas five years from now.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I see what you are saying.
There is a new one going in @
Amiens, France
Status: Construction - 13 days
5144A Route d'Amiens
That might help you.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I see what you mean since there are absolutely NO SC's in eastern Canada yet.
Just to be clear, though: Mind you, I'm not saying Supercharging isn't a competitive advantage for Tesla. Obviously it is.
Not just about availability but also the cost of charging is 20 cents CAD per kWh on the SCN. At home night charging is about 12 cents. Former is equivalent to around 5-6 cents per km while our RAV4 hybrid costs around 7-8 cents.
So makes most sense to drive the hybrid cause the savings isn't that much with potential delays of having to queue at the SCN for a few hours once more Teslas are on the road.
By contrast, our electricity is cheap, but our fuel is incredibly expensive. Even the most efficient hybrid cars don't come close to the operating costs of the most inefficient electric cars.
Every place is different.
There's no way Tesla is going to let that happen. Especially now that they're transforming Superchargers from loss leaders to profit centres.
Also, superchargers aren't just about trips: they're about security. The knowledge that if you have a supercharger somewhere around you, you don't have to worry about being stranded for hours if you mess up or have to make unexpected trips. Superchargers are to a non-trip-taker what CHAdeMOs are to a trip taker: not part of the plan, but you're glad that they're there if you need to use them.
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Barklikeadog
Active Member
Most likely Chevy and Toyota will expand their chargers at the dealers. Should be L3's. But now the chargers in place (L2's), which most dealers let Teslas use for free happen to close at night and in some places on Sunday.
In North America, likely the largest car market after China, gasoline is still a good alternative to many.
If one has to pay, then the SCN is nothing but a non-generic L3 charging station. Other consortium will build their networks out, even oil companies like Shell have begun outfitting stations with EV chargers.
I would be agnostic to charging networks because nothing is free for me to use.
Lack of SCN is a non-issue for me. Wait until there are more BEVs out there. Tesla was right to bring Solar City into the fold as it has economies of scale there. It does not have the scale in car manufacturing as oem's like Bosch are coming out with EV motors that are more sophisticated with torque vectoring.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
The tax credit will most likely be full through June and half from July-December. That’s why I said 200,000 x $7500 and 200,000 x $3750, or $2.25 billion in lost revenue for the government. Republicans who talk about lower taxes should love the credit since it just gives back money you pay in and not someone else’s money.
I also based that on shipping 400k cars in the US next year which is probably not accurate but a nice round number to play with.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
Who wants to go to a dealership and sit (for up to two and a half hours in a Chevy Bolt on DC fast charging) while on a long trip? Tesla is still the only option I’d consider.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
That's exactly what I suggested when VW made their EV announcement several months ago -- and people nearly lynched me about how bad an idea that is, and how it would never, ever happen. Fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I still think it makes the most sense for these ICE manufacturers with their huge dealer networks.
Most mainstream car dealers are in commercial districts near shopping centers, restaurants, etc... just like many of the Superchargers.. so nobody is really going to be "sitting at a dealer" no more than Tesla people are "sitting at superchargers" in their cars.
Merrill
Merrill
It is amazing how everyone Is in such a hurry, when you go on a long distance trip your usually on vacation and stoping for a bathroom break or food and relaxing should be part of your vacation. What’s the rush? You would be amazed at how many people that know about Tesla never heard of supercharging. I think that when most people hear a car is all electric the first thing that they think is where do I plug in. I know I have electricity at home but what do I do when I’m on the road, where do I get electricity.
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