EVNow
Well-Known Member
I see you use a weasel word like "most" for ICE and but "all" for EVs.
In anycase, unions are solidly behind EVs. Problem is with managers/wall st worried about short term profits & dealers.
I don't know about where you live, but here car dealerships are located on Auto-rows, and there aren't any nearby restaurants or shopping centers, only more car dealerships. So it might make sense for the manufacturers, but it's an awful experience for the consumer.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Sure, there are obvious exceptions, but even if it's say, 20% of them are "auto-row" dealerships, I'd say 20% of superchargers I've visited where there's nothing nearby, or very inconvenient, or no easy restrooms nearby, etc. So as a generalization of both experiences, I'd say they would be about the same.
Are you saying you think 20% of dealership are "auto-row" dealerships? Around here I would say it's 80% of them.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
It was just an estimate. I'm sure it varies all over the country. Even in "auto rows" there tends to be other services closeby. The take-away point being that even some Superchargers are in inconvenient locations where people would have to "sit there" doing nothing.
I'm not going to start arguing how many auto-rows have other services. Around here, there's a McDonalds, a Wendy's, a Subway, and a chinese restaurant between the all dealerships. Oh, and a Dunkin Donuts.
edit: The dealerships are:
BMW
Audi
Porsche
Ferrari
Mercedes Benz
Miller Motor Cars
Bentley
Mclaren
Acura
Aston Martin
I'm not going to start arguing how many auto-rows have other services. Around here, there's a McDonalds, a Wendy's, a Subway, and a chinese restaurant between the all dealerships. Oh, and a Dunkin Donuts.
edit: The dealerships are:
BMW
Audi
Porsche
Ferrari
Mercedes Benz
Miller Motor Cars
Bentley
Mclaren
Acura
Aston Martin
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I subconscious post defensible arguments or statements. Can't help that.
Fewer components for batteries and drive motor units so likely fewer jobs required and for unions, it is more the number of hours rather than number of assembled components that's important during negotiations.
Dealerships can still fix cars. Just because they are EVs doesn't mean they will not have problems. Bigger market share means steady to increasing profits for them.
Short term profit because batteries are expensive compared to in-house engines and transmissions. Motors are not likely going to be expensive.
Short term profit is nothing compared to permanent impairment/collapse in market share once BEVs become more practical and acceptable.
McHoffa
EV.network
Az_Rael
Supporting Member
Ah, but many dealerships have lounges with restrooms, WiFi, coffee, bottled water, vending machines, etc for their customers. That is all I need on most road trip stops. And around here they are open late hours (until 9PM) because that is how long the sales department is open, so it’s not a completely terrible option for a consumer. Many of the upscale brands (Audi, Lexus, etc) have very nice lounges that I wouldn’t mind at all spending an hour at reading a paper, as I have many times waiting for my ICE car to have a minor service done.
ummgood
Member
The other problems with Auto Dealerships is when you get out into the boonies they might have a Chevy/Ford/Dodge dealer but that is it. Plus those dealerships tend to be small and do not have a lot of the new services/etc.... I know in Texas once you are outside of the major cities charging in dealerships wouldn't cut it.
As far as auto rows here in Austin (and other cities I lived) I agree that they are all in auto rows for the main stream manufacturers. In Austin there are a couple restaurants at the end of the auto row down south but it would still be quite a long walk and there are no sidewalks because it is on I-35 frontage. It would be dangerous to try to walk to the closest restaurant.
The example above of the auto row with the facilities mentioned above were all upscale dealerships. The Ferrari/Bentley/upscale dealerships tend to be in better areas of the city here where there are restaurants. But all of those manufacturers aren't really the ones that are going to bring mass market car adoption.
As far as auto rows here in Austin (and other cities I lived) I agree that they are all in auto rows for the main stream manufacturers. In Austin there are a couple restaurants at the end of the auto row down south but it would still be quite a long walk and there are no sidewalks because it is on I-35 frontage. It would be dangerous to try to walk to the closest restaurant.
The example above of the auto row with the facilities mentioned above were all upscale dealerships. The Ferrari/Bentley/upscale dealerships tend to be in better areas of the city here where there are restaurants. But all of those manufacturers aren't really the ones that are going to bring mass market car adoption.
Jeff N
Active Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 2,281
- 2,931
Of course, hardly anyone rolls up with 1-2% left on the battery and proceeds to do a 100% charge while they stand around twiddling their thumbs.
A far more likely scenario is to roll up with 15-20% and charge for an hour while eating to get over 80% battery state of charge. Or, charge for 30 minutes to gain 90 miles while visiting the Starbucks nearby.
I’ll agree with you that, in many cases, Starbucks and good restaurants may not be adjacent to Chevy dealerships. Highway charging needs to be located in plazas with multiple charging stalls next to useful amenities like many Supercharger locations. Fortunately, VW’s Electrify America subsidiary says they agree and their CCS/CHAdeMO plans show that they basically seek to copy Tesla’s Supercharger rollout.
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HankLloydRight
No Roads
Aaaaaand I knew someone was going to make this assertion. And if I said the dealerships were Ford, Chevy, Kia, Toyota, etc, that someone would have made the identical argument against that too.
My point was that if you look closely at most of these auto-miles, there are diners, fast-food, or restaurants nearby. Where do you think all those hungry and bored salesmen, service techs, or "let me go ask my manager" types go to eat everyday?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No where I care to eat.
I much prefer for DCFC to be on highways or as nearby as possible.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
So do I, certainly. But we're discussing charging at dealerships, if that were to happen.
Pretty sure all those dealership employees drive somewhere for food. Based on my experience of sitting in dealership waiting for car to be serviced, there isn't much place to go eat within walking distance. sitting/drinking bottled water in dealership gets really old, really fast even with wifi. I bet they put the chargers there just because it was cheap and because they thought they'd upswell customers waiting for charging to complete and don't care whether there is anything to keep customer occupied besides that.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
We're talking about the future of a charging network located at dealerships. Not existing one-off charging spots put there for marketing or PR purposes. This is getting ridiculous and predictable, just like last time. Fine, you're all right and I'm wrong. There will never be an EV charging network centered around the existing and expansive dealership networks located pretty much everywhere. I'm not having this argument all over again. Time will tell.
S3XY
Active Member
I think we're discussing the future Auto Dealership Row design studio???
Typical topic derailment. Seems to be happening more frequently as everyone here keeps becoming increasingly impatient. Anyway, let's see if we can get back on topic. While it does not necessarily require the design studio, Elon did tweet that customer deliveries in late October are still possible, although I'd say not probable at this point. If this holds true and a handful of us actual regular customers do get their cars by the end of the month then how soon would emails go out to place orders? My guess is that it would need to happen at least 2 weeks before delivery to reservation holders close to the plant. So if no one gets an order invitation by next Monday I think it's safe to say that October customer deliveries are not gonna happen.
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