Model 3 entry via ... keycard & app. No fob.

[MP3Mike]

On the other hand, if the handles are retracted you can't open the door anyway

But when a Model S is in this state all you have to do is touch the handles and they present and you can open the door.

 

[electracity]

I don't see where power is listed on the NFC side of the picture, however I don't care. All of our Dell NFC ( Contactless security ) cards here are passive ( no batteries ). Maybe Tesla's card is a contactless security card. I'm not going to argue about it.

I'm not arguing, I'm learning. I know RFID is externally powered. I assumed that since two NFC devices can communicate that both are powered. But it seems that power is optional. So it can be laminated and waterproofed inexpensively.

I think mojo's post above about an optional key fob may be right. It's a simple way to satisfy traditionalists.

I want my model 3 to recognize me and respond to hand signals like the DJI Spark:

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The M3 has a new key card system, a fancy vent control, porn camera, new UI, and coat hooks. This makes S/X buyers sad.

Elon DID say your car would be able to make you money.......

 

[ohmman]

That's my hope, although my other worry is:
- frequent exposure to salt water
- bending the key (it doesn't necessarily look that sturdy) while moving around with the key card somewhere in wetsuit/swimming trunks pocket

These are issues that exist with current fobs as well.

 

[derekmw]

These are issues that exist with current fobs as well.

Like I said, I have this problem with my MS (and also had the same problem with my Volt when I had it). My leaf that I had, and my 550i does not because both have the ability to pull the metal key portion out of the fob and leave the actual fob in the car and then lock the car using the metal key. I wish this was still an option on a lot of these newer fobs. It's almost as if they forget the use case of what I have...every surfer/beach swimmer out there will have this same problem when you don't have anyone else just hanging out at the beach guarding your key for you...

 

[ohmman]

Like I said, I have this problem with my MS (and also had the same problem with my Volt when I had it). My leaf that I had, and my 550i does not because both have the ability to pull the metal key portion out of the fob and leave the actual fob in the car and then lock the car using the metal key. I wish this was still an option on a lot of these newer fobs. It's almost as if they forget the use case of what I have...every surfer/beach swimmer out there will have this same problem when you don't have anyone else just hanging out at the beach guarding your key for you...

It's an issue for sure. The Model S owners I know who surf usually wind up hiding the key. Not a terribly safe methodology. Some kind of well made waterproof pocket for the keycard would be an improvement over our existing situation. Lock the phone in the car with BT off, put the keycard in the protection, then into your board shorts, and off you go.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Google wins every time:
Surf Lock - Car Key Security Padlock

 

[gregincal]

The chart suggests NFC always has power. That suggest to me that the card is RFID. Either can probably be made water proof.

I'm sure Tesla has been through the exercise of considering key and key fob uses. As I said earlier I think we are missing a piece of information. I'm predicting a reveal. The stuff revealed will be available in the S/X before customers get M3.

The M3 has a new key card system, a fancy vent control, porn camera, new UI, and coat hooks. This makes S/X buyers sad.

The NFC chip is powered inductively by the reader. That's one of the reasons you need to hold it so close.

 

[derekmw]

yeah, there's a few guys who use that, but it still doesn't help me with the MS, the key is attached to the car, so you just touch the handles and the car opens, allowing thieves to steal anything in the car.

You could possibly wrap the key in foil and it may prevent the car from seeing it, I haven't tried, but why not just design the car in a way that we don't have to go round about having to find ways to secure the car via other means.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

yeah, there's a few guys who use that, but it still doesn't help me with the MS, the key is attached to the car, so you just touch the handles and the car opens, allowing thieves to steal anything in the car.

You could possibly wrap the key in foil and it may prevent the car from seeing it, I haven't tried, but why not just design the car in a way that we don't have to go round about having to find ways to secure the car via other means.

It would be cool if they made that box with the special RFID/Bluetooth/Etc-proof lining.

We occasionally travel with our 2nd EZ Pass in the car to bring it to our in-laws and allow them to use it to drive up and see us. We've never had any issues just wrapping it in tinfoil.


(But those are active RFID transponders........)

 

[mojo.k]

The major issue I see is whether the phone's OS supports the functionality the fob had. It looks like this type of thing CAN be done with iOS now per Core Bluetooth Background Processing for iOS Apps Section:
Performing Long-Term Actions in the Background

In general, an advantage the 3 has is that the door latch can be electronically activated (as shown by the push button exit on the inner handle). This makes the timing much more flexible vs standard handles which do not unlock if the handle is already up when the unlock activation happens (common with passengers and RKE). This may allow the car to delay taking any action until the door handle itself is pulled.

We know the phone can do it in background, the question is reliability and consistency of it. The phone does not optimize for discovery speed. Discovery in ~10 seconds for 90th percentile is considered good enough for the phone as it optimizing for battery efficiency. The AirPods have custom BT chips so that this discovery and pairing is super quick and battery optimal.

For example, right from the documentation:

Although you can perform many Bluetooth-related tasks while your app is in the background, keep in mind that scanning for peripherals while your app is in the background operates differently than when your app is in the foreground. In particular, when your app is scanning for device while in the background:

• The CBCentralManagerScanOptionAllowDuplicatesKey scan option key is ignored, and multiple discoveries of an advertising peripheral are coalesced into a single discovery event.
  
  
• If all apps that are scanning for peripherals are in the background, the interval at which your central device scans for advertising packets increases. As a result, it may take longer to discover an advertising peripheral.

These changes help minimize radio usage and improve the battery life on your iOS device.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

We know the phone can do it in background, the question is reliability and consistency of it. The phone does not optimize for discovery speed. Discovery in ~10 seconds for 90th percentile is considered good enough for the phone as it optimizing for battery efficiency. The AirPods have custom BT chips so that this discovery and pairing is super quick and battery optimal.

For example, right from the documentation:

Coming from an Android, with a smartwatch, the phone takes less than 3 seconds to reconnect to the watch whenever I walk into/out of bluetooth range.

Hopefully (for you) Apple performs in a similar manner.

As a matter of fact, for those of you whose Apple Watch is tied to your iPhone, you can now test your phone...put down the phone..walk across the house with the watch on......now walk back into range of the phone.......how quickly do you connect?

That's a decent simulation for now. (watch=car in this scenario)

 

[brkaus]

For the ones that still have questions about the phone unlocking try replacing the word phone with fob in your question. It will work the same way the Model X Bluetooth fob works. It has been working for years with other Tesla Models, why is it that moving the function over the phone would now suddenly not work for any scenario that the fob works?

Because assuming it works as before doesn't sound as dramatic.

 

[gregd]

Thanks, I got the same info from the tesla forum. That makes this setup a bit more convenient than a FOB. If my wife wants to leave her purse (and phone) in the car, she would only need to turn off Bluetooth, lock it in the trunk and all is well.

Having to remember to disable Bluetooth makes this system highly prone to failure, and requires the phone's owner to dig into settings that should be static. On return, they'd need to remember to turn it back on, too, otherwise the next phone call won't get properly handled because the phone didn't connect to the car, etc. Way too clunky, failure prone, annoying. You're spending your time managing things that shouldn't need to be managed. My wife was a wonderful, capable, caring person, but she had no patience for tech that needed babysitting. It needs to be invisible, and it's not.

 

[gregincal]

Having to remember to disable Bluetooth makes this system highly prone to failure, and requires the phone's owner to dig into settings that should be static. On return, they'd need to remember to turn it back on, too, otherwise the next phone call won't get properly handled because the phone didn't connect to the car, etc. Way too clunky, failure prone, annoying. You're spending your time managing things that shouldn't need to be managed. My wife was a wonderful, capable, caring person, but she had no patience for tech that needed babysitting. It needs to be invisible, and it's not.

Better is to get a signal blocking bag, which is what people do for FOBs since they have no setting to turn them off.

 

[BluestarE3]

Better is to get a signal blocking bag, which is what people do for FOBs since they have no setting to turn them off.

Will that block the phone from receiving calls and texts too?

 

[JonathanD]

Will that block the phone from receiving calls and texts too?

Sometimes I wouldn't mind that!

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Sometimes I wouldn't mind that!

exactly. "sorry boss....must have been in a dead spot"

 

[brkaus]

Better is to get a signal blocking bag, which is what people do for FOBs since they have no setting to turn them off.

Or use the power button on the phone. Fobs do not have that either.

 

[gregincal]

Will that block the phone from receiving calls and texts too?

Yes, although I'm not sure why you'd care if your phone is locked inside a car. However, as somebody else pointed out, it's probably easier to just turn the phone off. Saves batteries that way too.