Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
He said it would be a tri motor and all models will have a tri offering. Teslas new offerings synchronized.
Anyway, one sales guys discussion. Taking it as such
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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
Anyway, one sales guys discussion. Taking it as such
Probably $59,990. Nobody would get an E-Ray with zero options.
57 times 2 is $114 not $104.
I thought it didn’t actually charge any faster than the Model 3 Performance?
He’s wrong. Full stop.He said it would be a tri motor and all models will have a tri offering. Teslas new offerings synchronized.
Anyway, one sales guys discussion. Taking it as such
Was meant to be a joke/dig at all the people saying 800V and 4680 structural packs are the answer, since the CT has these things and in the real world is charging slower than other cars and is getting pretty iffy range. Clearly these things do not magically make for a good EV.
No one in their right mind is paying ADMs for this in this market. And if they do, god bless them. Fools. EVs are sucking wind big time. Markups? No chance I’d pay over sticker for any EV.
cptnslo
Member
Sadly there are still people willing to pay markups because there’s always people with too much money who want the newest things
cptnslo
Member
Car and driver estimated 70k. To me that makes sense since a top trim ioniq 5 is like 55k and it’s a huge step up to the N in almost every way I can’t imagine it would be 9-10k more only
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
The Plaid rotor uses segmented iron to limit eddy currents. That's all there is to it.
Just as a generator uses magnets to induce currents in copper windings, the magnetic fields of a motor's copper windings induce currents in the iron of the spinning rotor. This current flows thru the iron to produce a magnetic field of its own, which is in opposition to the driving field and tries to turn the stator into a generator. This reversal is known as back EMF and is the reason that power begins to decline above 50mph in the Model 3 - the motor fights back by generating a voltage of it's own that the battery then has to overcome. By segmenting the iron, the electrical connection is broken such that only small eddy currents can develop and this undesirable back EMF is greatly reduced. But the segments also break the mechanical integrity of the rotor and there's no glue strong enough to bond these iron pieces back together so they tie up the whole jumble with a band of carbon fiber.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
No. That's not how it works. Yes, that literally is exactly how it works, but the more voltage overhead the system has, the less efficient the motor and inverter become at lower power levels. So it's an optimization trade, not a simple "more is better".
No. That's not how it works. Battery power is basically proportional to battery mass, and motor power is basically proportional to copper mass. It doesn't really matter if the system is configured for 4V or 400V. Yes, there are 2nd order effects like the bus wiring size, insulation size, transistor design, etc. but from the motor/battery standpoint there's very little sensitivity to voltage.
When you double the design voltage of a motor, you cut the current in half and the I^2R losses by 1/4. But you also double the length of the windings and cut the wire size in half. Doubling the wire length and doubling the resistance results in 4X losses. So you're right back where you started.
Batteries have a similar limit in that wiring them for 2X voltage capability inherently cuts the maximum pack current by 1/2. The wattage remains the same.
So again, all 800V does is allow for faster charging. And not because of some Ohm's trickery, it's simply because people can't wrangle the larger cables that would be needed to flow umteen gigawatts at lower voltages.
I still claim that when using motors made for delivering full power at for example 350V, having a battery that is capable of staying above 350V at full throttle/load for a wide range of SOC is what is needed to keep the power high not only at 80-100%.
This can be made by increasing the battery voltage (just like in the S Plaid by going from 96S to 110S) and it can also be done by reducing the internal redistance (just like the S Plaid by having the dragstrip mode warming the battery to ~40C).
In the S Plaid case it is evident that neither of the actions alone is sufficient to give the full power in the 20-100% range.
But together they do it well. Still, at higher speeds the low SOC reduces the power from what I see in my logs. I would guess the overhead voltage from using 110S instead of 96S is not enough at lower SOC to be able to use extra voltage to counter the EMF and loss of power at high rpm.
For the new M3P it would need to deliver better power outside the narrow band the okd one did, at least if they are to put the Plaid badge on the frunk lid.
I guess there will be battery warming, like the Dragstrip mode in the Plaid.
I guess a higher voltage battery would be desirable, but it might be too expensive to have a separate battery version for the Performance version, so not sure about that.
The Superchargers already are made for up to 500V, thats the reason we can charge our new model S with them.
I guess the 110S (462V) configuration was set to be able to use the current supercharging stations.
This can be made by increasing the battery voltage (just like in the S Plaid by going from 96S to 110S) and it can also be done by reducing the internal redistance (just like the S Plaid by having the dragstrip mode warming the battery to ~40C).
In the S Plaid case it is evident that neither of the actions alone is sufficient to give the full power in the 20-100% range.
But together they do it well. Still, at higher speeds the low SOC reduces the power from what I see in my logs. I would guess the overhead voltage from using 110S instead of 96S is not enough at lower SOC to be able to use extra voltage to counter the EMF and loss of power at high rpm.
For the new M3P it would need to deliver better power outside the narrow band the okd one did, at least if they are to put the Plaid badge on the frunk lid.
I guess there will be battery warming, like the Dragstrip mode in the Plaid.
I guess a higher voltage battery would be desirable, but it might be too expensive to have a separate battery version for the Performance version, so not sure about that.
The Superchargers already are made for up to 500V, thats the reason we can charge our new model S with them.
I guess the 110S (462V) configuration was set to be able to use the current supercharging stations.
Technically the part number for the board is different, while the LR does use the exact model 3 inverter board down to the part numbers. I couldn't tell you what's different though, EPC claims both are rated for 810A.
Also for what it's worth, MSLR also uses the same 980 rear motor as the M3P. Front motor is obviously different. Neither is carbon wrapped, though the overall power curve is still much flatter than M3P. Not sure if the power curve difference is coming entirely from the front motor or if there's something else going on.
In this video put out by Tesla they explicitly highlight that cool motors are the key to getting max power out of the Plaid. They also say that Dragstrip mode heats the battery “just a little bit”.
The vast majority of power loss in a Model 3 Performance comes from the front motor. Only half of the front motor max power is available at 130 mph.
Interesting. Wish I had a similar graph for the MSLR and MS Plaid. I suppose I could grab scanmytesla or something and try to generate them myself when I have some time (dad has an MXLR which I could probably borrow)
So some EPC digging now that the US Highland EPC is updated. Looks like the rear motor will either be a 3DU variant (same 990 motor as before) or a 4DU variant -- which interestingly is labeled as "Corked". 4DU itself isn't a big surprise, Model Ys were already rolling out with them, and possibly late non-highland Model 3s. But I think the corked description wasn't there before, and implies that there will be an "uncorked" variant at some point.
If you can generate a graph for any of those cars it would be extremely helpful to compare it to this graph.
I have data & logs from esch time I used dragstrip mode.
How to which temperature they are heated depends partly on the SOC.
How much they are heated depends on the initial temperature, of course.
High SOC heated to about 33C
Lower SOC heated to about 44C
The cell temp target is dynamic, so not 33 or 44C, these was just examples.
The motors do the heating so the motors are heated to the same temp(” (actually Slightly more to be s le to transfer the heat), inlet and outlet temps from the motors shows that.
