Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[golfcart]

I think the disconnect is that you seem to expect the Tesla to be everything a Tesla is - PLUS everything a Mercedes is - at the price of a Mercedes.

There's no Honda or Mecedes with Tesla-level integrated infotainment or app-control. And there's no Honda or Mercedes with Tesla-level performance or drivability. Yet the Tesla has a lower total cost of ownership than either. If those things appeal to you, Tesla may be a good choice. But if your priorities are fancy seat stitching and Android Auto, you're going to hate Tesla. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's no need for you to keep whining about Tesla not having fancier interiors. Go get an i5 and enjoy everything that Tesla is not.

I think this is the crux of it. Different brands prioritize different things and the consumers that are loyal to those brands tend to value the things that brand prioritizes. I don't care about plush interiors much, they are actually a source of stress for me because I am always concerned about messing them up. I just want a really fast car with a solid stereo that looks good, can fit my family and sports gear, and is cheap to operate. The model 3 checks all of those boxes better than any car I have seen... supercar level performance, integrated spotify with decent speakers and a subwoofer, 4 door sedan with ample storage, and I spent $275 last year in electricity to drive the car. Sure, if I had my druthers the P3D would get more aggressive styling and a sportier suspension from the factory, but overall I really can't complain too much. My P3D is the best car I have ever owned and it isn't even close.

As far as the Highland speculation goes. My hopes would be 0-60 in 2.8 or less, adjustable ride height suspension, and some kind of body kit or unique fenders to set it apart from the other trims. It really doesn't matter what I think though because my wife will never let me get a new car in the next 5 years.

 

[Tursey]

People who is driving then new Highland in Europe are saying that drivability in SR and LR has gotten worse, specially if we are talking about sport/fast driving.... It's softer than before and steering wheel feedback and range are worse

What do you think? Could they be keeping the good drivability and "kart" feeling just for de Performance/Ludicrous version in order to differentiate them a little bit more??

 

[pdx_m3s]

What do you think? Could they be keeping the good drivability and "kart" feeling just for de Performance/Ludicrous version in order to differentiate them a little bit more??

I think that's exactly what they are doing. They are making the non-P versions more comfortable for 99% of how people drive them.

 

[gearchruncher]

adjustable ride height suspension,

Please no. No performance car comes on air suspension. It's heavy, complicated, expensive, prone to breaking, and way too soft for performance driving.
Adjustable damping, yes. Airbags, no.

 

[804son]

If they made the M3P something truly special, that's about the only way I would give up my M3LRAWD+, but It's Tesla, I really don't see that happening. Hope I'm wrong....
I think it needs some different body panels and much improved suspension purpose built for handling, the power and chassis are already plenty good. a True BMW M3 killer.

 

[clerks]

I think this is the crux of it. Different brands prioritize different things and the consumers that are loyal to those brands tend to value the things that brand prioritizes. I don't care about plush interiors much, they are actually a source of stress for me because I am always concerned about messing them up. I just want a really fast car with a solid stereo that looks good, can fit my family and sports gear, and is cheap to operate. The model 3 checks all of those boxes better than any car I have seen... supercar level performance, integrated spotify with decent speakers and a subwoofer, 4 door sedan with ample storage, and I spent $275 last year in electricity to drive the car. Sure, if I had my druthers the P3D would get more aggressive styling and a sportier suspension from the factory, but overall I really can't complain too much. My P3D is the best car I have ever owned and it isn't even close.

As far as the Highland speculation goes. My hopes would be 0-60 in 2.8 or less, adjustable ride height suspension, and some kind of body kit or unique fenders to set it apart from the other trims. It really doesn't matter what I think though because my wife will never let me get a new car in the next 5 years.

I don't disagree with any of this. The premise was whether people would pay 63k plus for an M3P with the budget interior and very few if any other upgrades other than the powertrain. My assertion is that without improvements to differentiate, it will be a tough sell in the market. If they can't do more to differentiate, most will go for a LR and 15k plus cheaper. That is all. Maybe it will sell like hotcakes. IDK. Most people spending 60 plus on a sports sedan need more than just blistering speed. They want some degree of luxury. It's laughable that the Model 3 is considered a "luxury" car because its objectively "not" luxury. I've owned infinitis that are nicer on the inside.

 

[gearchruncher]

Most people spending 60 plus on a sports sedan need more than just blistering speed.

Nissan Z Nismo: Starts at $65K (and impossible to buy)
Supra Premium: Starts at $58K
Mustang Dark Horse: Starts at $60K
Civic Type R: $50K + $10K dealer markup, assuming you can find one.

$60K is not what it used to be. A GR Corolla is $40K + dealer markup.

 

[clerks]

Nissan Z Nismo: Starts at $65K (and impossible to buy)
Supra Premium: Starts at $58K
Mustang Dark Horse: Starts at $60K
Civic Type R: $50K + $10K dealer markup, assuming you can find one.

$60K is not what it used to be. A GR Corolla is $40K + dealer markup.

I agree 60k isn't what it used to be. But I still think the M3P with no meaningful improvements over an LR other than powertrain will be a tough sell. Tesla has killed the market value of its cars with the price drops. So people are very gunshy on buying them and dealers dont' want them on trade. That's not an issue with the others on your list.

 

[Apprunner]

I agree 60k isn't what it used to be. But I still think the M3P with no meaningful improvements over an LR other than powertrain will be a tough sell. Tesla has killed the market value of its cars with the price drops. So people are very gunshy on buying them and dealers dont' want them on trade. That's not an issue with the others on your list.

Really? I see more Model 3 Performances than all of those put togther times 2. If they build it, people will buy it for that extra little speed.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Nissan Z Nismo: Starts at $65K (and impossible to buy)
Supra Premium: Starts at $58K
Mustang Dark Horse: Starts at $60K
Civic Type R: $50K + $10K dealer markup, assuming you can find one.

$60K is not what it used to be. A GR Corolla is $40K + dealer markup.

This. Exactly this. Kia EV6 GT was $70K+ a year ago with markups. Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be $80k+ with markups.

Give me Model S performance specs in a Model 3 with much better suspension, tires, and seats and I will hand you my $60K-$65K. I don't care what the interior looks like. I daily drive my gutted Model 3 right now.

 

[momo3605]

Nissan Z Nismo: Starts at $65K (and impossible to buy)
Supra Premium: Starts at $58K
Mustang Dark Horse: Starts at $60K
Civic Type R: $50K + $10K dealer markup, assuming you can find one.

$60K is not what it used to be. A GR Corolla is $40K + dealer markup.

These cars all have some level of track credibility and are generally used as a second car (other than the Nismo Z which is an utter piece of crap lol) but that being said, EVs are still a tough sell for real car enthusiasts, especially because of high weight and lack of drama and connection. They need to go in the BMW M3 direction, which is also now a heavy and numb car but comfortable, luxurious, and has bench racer specs that the "bros" can brag about. Even with the higher price tag, BMW sells more $90k M3s than Honda/Ford/Nissan sell their cars.

 

[golfcart]

I don't disagree with any of this. The premise was whether people would pay 63k plus for an M3P with the budget interior and very few if any other upgrades other than the powertrain. My assertion is that without improvements to differentiate, it will be a tough sell in the market. If they can't do more to differentiate, most will go for a LR and 15k plus cheaper. That is all. Maybe it will sell like hotcakes. IDK. Most people spending 60 plus on a sports sedan need more than just blistering speed. They want some degree of luxury. It's laughable that the Model 3 is considered a "luxury" car because its objectively "not" luxury. I've owned infinitis that are nicer on the inside.

Thats fair, but I am not sure where $63k is coming from that is $12k more than the current performance model without even considering the tax credit. Was it a hypothetical that i missed?

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Thats fair, but I am not sure where $63k is coming from that is $12k more than the current performance model without even considering the tax credit. Was it a hypothetical that i missed?

A Ludicrious Model 3 will not get the $7,500 US tax credit. It will be over $55K for sure. The price of it is entirely dependent on how far they take it. If it is just a Highland version of the Model 3 Performance then probably right around $55K-$56K. If it is Ludicrious then probably more like $60K+.

 

[golfcart]

A Ludicrious Model 3 will not get the $7,500 US tax credit. It will be over $55K for sure. The price of it is entirely dependent on how far they take it. If it is just a Highland version of the Model 3 Performance then probably right around $55K-$56K. If it is Ludicrious then probably more like $60K+.

I mean we don't really know that, even if you might have reason to believe it will be the case. I think the Highland models in some foreign markets have been modestly more expensive that the current one but not significantly so. Current P3D is $50,990 in the US market. It remains to be seen what the new pricing will be and if higher performance trims will be available.

 

[golfcart]

Please no. No performance car comes on air suspension. It's heavy, complicated, expensive, prone to breaking, and way too soft for performance driving.
Adjustable damping, yes. Airbags, no.

I dunno they have it on the plaid and I have heard that people like it. I wasn't aware it had reliability issues but that is a concern if true. I don't really do a lot of "performance driving" I just take off-ramps kind of quick and stomp the pedal at stop lights. Factory coilovers would be ideal but I haven't heard of companies offering that. I love the look and feel of a lowered car but I hate bottoming out on driveways and speed bumps.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I mean we don't really know that, even if you might have reason to believe it will be the case. I think the Highland models in some foreign markets have been modestly more expensive that the current one but not significantly so. Current P3D is $50,990 in the US market. It remains to be seen what the new pricing will be and if higher performance trims will be available.

Different motors alone would push the price up significantly.

Note that I specifically said the “ludicrous” Model 3 would be over $55k. There is always the possibility that we just get a Highland Model 3 Performance with some staggered tires and a tweaked suspension and not much else. Basically a refreshed Model 3 Performance and not the car we are all hoping for.

I don’t think we will get just a refreshed Model 3 Performance but if we did then that car might be under $55k. However, that isn’t really the car we are all hoping for and not what I think they will deliver.

 

[gearchruncher]

Thats fair, but I am not sure where $63k is coming from that is $12k more than the current performance model

Just to speculate in the speculation thread...
MS is $75K @ 3.1 seconds. MS Plaid is $90K at "1.99" seconds.

M3 is $46K for 4.2 seconds and $51K for 3.1.
Why not charge $12K more in a M3P to get from 4.2 seconds to 2.5 and increase that margin from $5K to $12K?

 

[terranx]

Different motors alone would push the price up significantly.

Note that I specifically said the “ludicrous” Model 3 would be over $55k. There is always the possibility that we just get a Highland Model 3 Performance with some staggered tires and a tweaked suspension and not much else. Basically a refreshed Model 3 Performance and not the car we are all hoping for.

I don’t think we will get just a refreshed Model 3 Performance but if we did then that car might be under $55k. However, that isn’t really the car we are all hoping for and not what I think they will deliver.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the new M3P gets at least the rear motor with the carbon rotor. Tesla did design it so that it’s basically a drop in for the existing design.

 

[gearchruncher]

If you read this thread, you'll see the exact issues that any car company has making a car that will serve all customers. So far I think we have the following design requirements for the Tesla team:

1) Won't buy it unless it beats an $110K M3 0-60
2) 0-60 is a stupid metric
3) I won't buy it unless it pulls at 120 MPH
4) It must "kill" the BMW M3 or it's pointless
5) What does a $100K BMW have to do with this market segment?
6) The interior must be "luxurious" or nobody will buy it
7) The interior is fine
8) The exterior must look different
9) The exterior must look really, really different
10) I just want it to be fast, don't care what it looks like
11) $63K is too much
12) $63K is a bargain
13) I want great, performance suspension
14) I want soft suspension, I don't care about max cornering
15) I track the car
16) All I do is stomp on the throttle at stop lights.
17) Quarter mile times matter a lot
18) 130+ MPH quarter mile times are pointless in a street car

What did I miss?

 

[wook]

This just in: people want all the things but don't want to pay for them. More at 11, Bob.