Model 3 long range vs other premium sports sedans

[Zcd1]

Hi everyone,

I'm very interested in buying a used 2018/19 M3, but I'm just struggling with choosing between the Tesla and other sports sedans within the same price range, such as 2017 Audi S6, 2018/19 Jaguar XF, and a few others. My 3 year lease is ending in Feb, so I have some time to make a decision, but I'm already thinking about it.

I guess a lot of it is personal preference, but I'm really torn. I'm a tech LOVER, so that's a huge reason why I'm looking at the Tesla over other cars...I've actually been interested in the M3 since it came out, but I keep ending up getting other cars! There's just something looks-wise about the Audi S6 that is really appealing (I used to own an S7, but I want something a little cheaper), and the S6 is just as fast as the long range M3, WITH the speed upgrade. The Model 3 is a really nice looking car, but IMO the Audis are nicer looking.

As far as long term ownership, I've talked to quite a few Tesla owners and I've been told there is really barely any maintenance when compared to ICE sports sedans, so I assume I would be better off with the M3 in the long run?? Tesla's 8 year battery warranty is really amazing, but do other components tend to break down also? Do you guys know what the warranty is for everything other than batteries?

I basically just want someone to talk me into choosing the M3! lol For all of you guys that are M3 owners, what drove your decision to choose it vs other (fast and attractive) premium sports sedans???

I drove Audis for 20+ years before buying my TM3P, most recently a tuned C7 S6. On balance, I enjoy the Tesla more. I could go on and on about the comparison between the cars, but the bottom line is that the Tesla is much more fun to drive and much quicker in the real world.

The only downsides (for me) are that the ride is firmer than would be my preference (though not uncomfortably so - I'm just old and getting soft... ;-) and that it's noisier on the freeway than it could be, though this is extremely road-surface dependent. Super quiet on asphalt, kinda noisy on concrete/aggregate.

The Model 3's tech is in a different universe than the Audis' - far better integrated, more responsive and much more user-friendly.

As for looks - I still think the C7/C7.5 S6/S7 are as handsome as sports sedans come. The Model 3 isn't quite that stunning, but on the right set of wheels looks very nice indeed.

One last comment: Given your history, I'd suggest getting a Model 3P. Good luck with your decision!

 

[john5520]

All of the Audis look the same (electric razors -Sin City). Mercs are sold with fistfuls of Viagra ("we're still desirable!"). All German cars today are laden with stupid, pointless features that I, as a performance-oriented driver, could give a **** about.

Couldn't agree more on the electric razor grills. I guess people like them or else they wouldn't keep using them. Same with Lexus. I don't know, I look at all these cars and focus right in on the grills.
And this is very subjective, but the BMW 3 series as an example, have looked basically the same for at least 10 years, save for some slight exterior changes. And similarly, their interiors have had that dated look forever. Only in the last 2 years or so have they made any really noticeable updates to the guage clusters and center consoles from what I can see.

Now, in all fairness, while I have driven in a couple BMWs, I've never driven one, so that might be the one aspect that's needed to spur any excitement. But just looking at them, inside and out, don't do it for me. Same with the lower-end more affordable Mercedes and Audis. Though, If I had to pick an interior from the 3, Audi's would be it.

Some will say, don't fix what ain't broken, but we're living in the 21st century, at least try something different. Experiment a little. Not just on the high-end cars that's out of the reach of 90% of the population.

 

[Siciliano]

Thanks a lot for your insight! I'm glad I made this post because you and others have swayed me with very persuasive and intelligent comments. I especially appreciate that you've owned an Audi S - to me they are ALL pretty beautiful, especially the S6/S7 - I'm in love with them both (small bias of course, having owned one). I can say though, the ONLY thing I didn't like about it was how quiet it was for such a beast.

I also fully agree that the right set of rims could dramatically change the look and stance of a car for the better. It just sucks that usually the bigger the rims, the better looking... but I NEVER want to go back to 20"+ rims after what I went through with the S7. Within a fairly short amount of time I had a nasty bulge in my front driver's side tire and a bent rim on the back driver's side... and I don't even live in the city anymore (nyc being among the absolute worst for potholes). So maybe a beautiful set of 19's...

And yes if the price is right I will go for the M3P. If not, definitely LR+ with the speed boost.

 

[DwightKSchrute]

wow


M2 Comp is legit - wish it came in some sort of 4-door variant. Instead they gave us this monstrosity:

The new 3 Series isn't even offered in a manual anymore.

And don't get me started with the proliferation of M line badges on base 3 series

 

[yerEVan]

Another E46 asshole checking-in. Former 330i ZHP owner. 6 MT. Well-pampered. Loved the damn thing to death. Most balanced ICE car you can buy. Period. Peak ICE, IMO. (Fight me IRL.) Just the right looks, size, economy, practicality, comfort. Bought used. Drove it 10+ years. 100K+ miles. Far more reliable than most examples. No major issues. Endless compliments. Endless nickel & diming me. One day, the subframe had a crack - that was the end of that. German engineering my ass. Those days are gone. The chassis cracking? The ONE thing I can't fix? From regular use? A company that practically invented the sports sedan segment? Is this a joke?

Going in, you should know: Tesla still struggles in the Quality Control department. (Byproduct of technology geeks thinking they know everything.) But, overall, when I compare my Tesla's issues vs. the issues my BMW had over the same mileage, I'll happily deal with Tesla's piddly bullshit. I've really only had one problem w/ my Model 3 - turned out to be an annoying non-issue. Search wheel clicking. Dumb.

My P3D- is on bog-standard suspension and econo-MXM4s (coilovers + wheels/tires + other misc. suspension components will be installed soon, be patient!). Vaporized ///M 6 series whatevers, Dodge poopcats, Evos, brostangs, etc. My last victim was a 535i GT that had a head-start ~20 MPH roll. I was at a dead stop w/ 200 lbs of cargo. He didn't even get past my front passenger door before it was over. I think my SOC was something like 40%? Not even on the same planet. I remember I couldn't even keep up with those in my ZHP. Bonus: Perfect, consistent launches. Every. Single. Time. Bonus bonus: zero mechanical guilt. Always in the right gear. Always firmly in the powerband. No exploding transmissions, shredded differentials, thrown rods. Anyone who doesn't realize we're witnessing the genesis of an entirely new performance category is a moron. Sorry econo-peoples - you've accidentally'd a monster. What I save in petroleum, I make up in tires.

Moving on. My dad used to own a 528i 5 MT. I used to take it out when I was 15, without a license (never got caught). I liked cars, but didn't know *sugar*. But driving that car felt... special. It taught me there's more to driving than meets the eye. Even with its bottle cap wheels & all-season tires, it felt... different. Even an over-hormoned 15 year-old understood. I feel for peoples who say "I hated driving until my I drove a Model 3!" Ever driven an Exige? Prolly not.

Fast-forward to today. The Model 3 is closer to what German sports sedans used to be vs. German sports sedans today. Svelte/simple/understated/unassuming. Will wipe the floor with far louder & more expensive cars. No "LOOKET ME!" The German brands have forsaken the enthusiasts that made them what they are today. "We need to evolve with our consumer base!" said the top-floor Marketing Research dipshit. Result? The new 3 series is nearly ~186" long. My dad's '99 5 Series was ~188". All of the Audis look the same (electric razors -Sin City). Mercs are sold with fistfuls of Viagra ("we're still desirable!"). All German cars today are laden with stupid, pointless features that I, as a performance-oriented driver, could give a **** about. Got an F30 while getting my 9th Takata recall performed... Why are they measuring PSI down to the tenth? I thought I was OCD. Inline 4 turbo? In a BMW?! Oh, I can get a turbocharged I-6? Do I want that? My E46 was built back when they cared, and cars were simple(r). The back-office corporate Finance douche still hadn't a clue a world existed outside the Accord. Yet, it STILL leaked oil like a sieve by ~50K miles. It's unfathomable what these more "modren" engines must be like, today. 15 cat converters from start-to-finish!

Time to get a new car.

BMW/Audi/Merc wasn't even on my short list. Test-drove an STI... how old is the EJ engine by now? LOL! No ebo? Subaro no care. Sales guy had no clue what I was talking about - doesn't matter. You'd be an idiot to buy an STI over the new WRX as a DD. Test drove the WRX. HELLISH rev-hang. (Our political overlords have ruined manuals as well.) They sure know best! Don't belive me? Thanks Jason. Test drove a CTR. Car was a RIOT! Those side bolsters would look like *sugar* in 20K miles. But the real issue... the looks. :/ And the dealer mark-up. I'm not gonna pay you $10K over MSRP to arrive at client sites in a hopped-up Civic that looks like something from 9 Fast 9 Furious.

WTF IS THIS?

We used to rip on Mustangs for having fake hood scoops... now this. IN AN AUDI.

Time went on. There was a Tesla dealer on the way home. Everything sucks. The legacy autos have forsaken me. **** it. Wife, let's give it a shot. O what's this? A P3D? What's that? Whatever. It doesn't make any noise!!! That's neat. Let's take it onto the highway... put my foot down. WHAT. THE. ****. IS THIS!? Let's try it again, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things. 110+. Sales girl's getting a little uneasy, but she's cool. I ask: Is there a way to get this thing without the 20" donks? Yeah! About $5K less right now without the wheels! (and other pointless bits, come to find out, but that's OK. Built not bought brah!).

Are you listening, BMW? **** you. I'm the kind of guy who can keep any car running - indefinitely, as long as there's a HF nearby. I never thought I'd buy a new car. EVER. Swore against it. That's for morons who can't even change their oil. I was swayed. I bought a new car. I did. Was it a BMW? NO!

A 580 HP car that hits 60 in 3 seconds flat with none of the typical maintenance bullshit. No valve adjustments every 50K miles. No turbocharger heat soak. No carbon buildup & walnut blasting to clean your fancy DI engine. No debates about oil catch cans. No making sure it's warmed up before driving hard. No feeling like an idiot shuffling to & from work in a 500+ hp machine that gets <15 mpg in stop & go traffic that seldom sees over 35 mph. And it comfortably seats 5 people & has a crazy amount of space vs. a similarly-sized conventional car. It's the perfect high-performance DD with none of the drawbacks.

Most importantly - everything else sucks in comparison. There's nothing as good, especially at the same price point. It's either too dated, too watered-down/boring... Most manufacturers have simply forsaken the enthusiast & are computerizing every facet of the driving experience. Might as well take it all the way & go for the car that takes this concept to the extreme, but wraps it up in a novel & thrilling driving experience. "We know what millennials want!" No. You don't. But Tesla does, apparently - their chassis department consists of 4 guys who understand the way things should be (I think one of them has a 2002?).

(Disclaimer: many beer. sorry for hemingwayprose)

After reading this, I sense my true age as I do not understand about 25% (probably 30%) of what this person is typing. But I did enjoy reading it.

 

[Siciliano]

And don't get me started with the proliferation of M line badges on base 3 series

lol! I see it ALL the time, and it always makes me giggle. Even a slight car enthusiast can pick out a regular 3 series vs an M3. One of the easiest things to pick out on a lesser 3 series is the single exhaust... I'm pretty sure since the 2000 M3 they've all been dual.

I guess maybe they fool people that don't know anything about cars? But then those people have no idea what M line is either, so it's sort of for naught.

 

[RayK]

You must mean “about half as much”. Or are you saying you had a BMW that got ~85 mpg?

Yup, you're right. I meant half. Sorry for the brain fart.

"Much apologizing. Mathematics not Zathras' skill."

 

[holmgang]

BTW, speaking of beemers...the 2019 440i xDrive Gran Coupe is also in the same price range, making the decision all the more difficult.

Ewwwww.

 

[carlosnunezhtx]

Another E46 asshole checking-in. Former 330i ZHP owner. 6 MT. Well-pampered. Loved the damn thing to death. Most balanced ICE car you can buy. Period. Peak ICE, IMO. (Fight me IRL.) Just the right looks, size, economy, practicality, comfort. Bought used. Drove it 10+ years. 100K+ miles. Far more reliable than most examples. No major issues. Endless compliments. Endless nickel & diming me. One day, the subframe had a crack - that was the end of that. German engineering my ass. Those days are gone. The chassis cracking? The ONE thing I can't fix? From regular use? A company that practically invented the sports sedan segment? Is this a joke?

Going in, you should know: Tesla still struggles in the Quality Control department. (Byproduct of technology geeks thinking they know everything.) But, overall, when I compare my Tesla's issues vs. the issues my BMW had over the same mileage, I'll happily deal with Tesla's piddly bullshit. I've really only had one problem w/ my Model 3 - turned out to be an annoying non-issue. Search wheel clicking. Dumb.

My P3D- is on bog-standard suspension and econo-MXM4s (coilovers + wheels/tires + other misc. suspension components will be installed soon, be patient!). Vaporized ///M 6 series whatevers, Dodge poopcats, Evos, brostangs, etc. My last victim was a 535i GT that had a head-start ~20 MPH roll. I was at a dead stop w/ 200 lbs of cargo. He didn't even get past my front passenger door before it was over. I think my SOC was something like 40%? Not even on the same planet. I remember I couldn't even keep up with those in my ZHP. Bonus: Perfect, consistent launches. Every. Single. Time. Bonus bonus: zero mechanical guilt. Always in the right gear. Always firmly in the powerband. No exploding transmissions, shredded differentials, thrown rods. Anyone who doesn't realize we're witnessing the genesis of an entirely new performance category is a moron. Sorry econo-peoples - you've accidentally'd a monster. What I save in petroleum, I make up in tires.

Moving on. My dad used to own a 528i 5 MT. I used to take it out when I was 15, without a license (never got caught). I liked cars, but didn't know *sugar*. But driving that car felt... special. It taught me there's more to driving than meets the eye. Even with its bottle cap wheels & all-season tires, it felt... different. Even an over-hormoned 15 year-old understood. I feel for peoples who say "I hated driving until my I drove a Model 3!" Ever driven an Exige? Prolly not.

Fast-forward to today. The Model 3 is closer to what German sports sedans used to be vs. German sports sedans today. Svelte/simple/understated/unassuming. Will wipe the floor with far louder & more expensive cars. No "LOOKET ME!" The German brands have forsaken the enthusiasts that made them what they are today. "We need to evolve with our consumer base!" said the top-floor Marketing Research dipshit. Result? The new 3 series is nearly ~186" long. My dad's '99 5 Series was ~188". All of the Audis look the same (electric razors -Sin City). Mercs are sold with fistfuls of Viagra ("we're still desirable!"). All German cars today are laden with stupid, pointless features that I, as a performance-oriented driver, could give a **** about. Got an F30 while getting my 9th Takata recall performed... Why are they measuring PSI down to the tenth? I thought I was OCD. Inline 4 turbo? In a BMW?! Oh, I can get a turbocharged I-6? Do I want that? My E46 was built back when they cared, and cars were simple(r). The back-office corporate Finance douche still hadn't a clue a world existed outside the Accord. Yet, it STILL leaked oil like a sieve by ~50K miles. It's unfathomable what these more "modren" engines must be like, today. 15 cat converters from start-to-finish!

Time to get a new car.

BMW/Audi/Merc wasn't even on my short list. Test-drove an STI... how old is the EJ engine by now? LOL! No ebo? Subaro no care. Sales guy had no clue what I was talking about - doesn't matter. You'd be an idiot to buy an STI over the new WRX as a DD. Test drove the WRX. HELLISH rev-hang. (Our political overlords have ruined manuals as well.) They sure know best! Don't belive me? Thanks Jason. Test drove a CTR. Car was a RIOT! Those side bolsters would look like *sugar* in 20K miles. But the real issue... the looks. :/ And the dealer mark-up. I'm not gonna pay you $10K over MSRP to arrive at client sites in a hopped-up Civic that looks like something from 9 Fast 9 Furious.

WTF IS THIS?

We used to rip on Mustangs for having fake hood scoops... now this. IN AN AUDI.

Time went on. There was a Tesla dealer on the way home. Everything sucks. The legacy autos have forsaken me. **** it. Wife, let's give it a shot. O what's this? A P3D? What's that? Whatever. It doesn't make any noise!!! That's neat. Let's take it onto the highway... put my foot down. WHAT. THE. ****. IS THIS!? Let's try it again, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things. 110+. Sales girl's getting a little uneasy, but she's cool. I ask: Is there a way to get this thing without the 20" donks? Yeah! About $5K less right now without the wheels! (and other pointless bits, come to find out, but that's OK. Built not bought brah!).

Are you listening, BMW? **** you. I'm the kind of guy who can keep any car running - indefinitely, as long as there's a HF nearby. I never thought I'd buy a new car. EVER. Swore against it. That's for morons who can't even change their oil. I was swayed. I bought a new car. I did. Was it a BMW? NO!

A 580 HP car that hits 60 in 3 seconds flat with none of the typical maintenance bullshit. No valve adjustments every 50K miles. No turbocharger heat soak. No carbon buildup & walnut blasting to clean your fancy DI engine. No debates about oil catch cans. No making sure it's warmed up before driving hard. No feeling like an idiot shuffling to & from work in a 500+ hp machine that gets <15 mpg in stop & go traffic that seldom sees over 35 mph. And it comfortably seats 5 people & has a crazy amount of space vs. a similarly-sized conventional car. It's the perfect high-performance DD with none of the drawbacks.

Most importantly - everything else sucks in comparison. There's nothing as good, especially at the same price point. It's either too dated, too watered-down/boring... Most manufacturers have simply forsaken the enthusiast & are computerizing every facet of the driving experience. Might as well take it all the way & go for the car that takes this concept to the extreme, but wraps it up in a novel & thrilling driving experience. "We know what millennials want!" No. You don't. But Tesla does, apparently - their chassis department consists of 4 guys who understand the way things should be (I think one of them has a 2002?).

(Disclaimer: many beer. sorry for hemingwayprose)

I didn’t know you could get the Performance without the wheels. I was very tempted to get it but opted against because of that (and the shorter range...which was probably due to the wheels). Was this a 2018-2019 special? (I got mine two weeks ago.)

 

[Knightshade]

I didn’t know you could get the Performance without the wheels. I was very tempted to get it but opted against because of that (and the shorter range...which was probably due to the wheels). Was this a 2018-2019 special? (I got mine two weeks ago.)

In 2018 you could order the P3D- (performance Model 3 minus the upgrade package that gave you the 20s and larger brakes) for $5000 less than the P3D+....later in the year they discontinued the P3D-, made the P3D+ the only one orderable, and cut its price $5000.

In 2019 you could sometimes find an inventory P3D- (not available to order, but could buy an existing one out of inventory) for only a $2000 upcharge from a LR AWD....P3D+ remained the only "orderable" version.

In 2020 you could for the first few months order a P3D- but for the same price as the P3D+...P3D+ remains orderable.

Today the P3D- is back to not available new. Unknown if that'll change.

 

[carlosnunezhtx]

I’ve rented a few sedans in this category (I fly for work every work...or did before the COVID-19 crisis). I don’t care much about speed, as I usually drive at the speed limit. But I do care about technology and driver automation.

NONE of them had tech that was nearly as good as the Model 3 I rented on Turo. The M3 is the first car I’ve ever driven that had navigation and voice command systems that were actually worth using. I don’t use my phone at all while driving my 3.

(Mercedes COMAND is trash; BMW iDrive is quite nice though it wasn’t always that way; Audi MMI is okay. ALL of them have crappy navigation.)

The 3’s cruise control and automation platforms are in a completely different universe than anything else on the market. Being able to have the car drive itself during the longest stretches of our trips (thanks to Navigate on Autopilot and Autosteer) is changing how I think about driving. Nothing else comes close. (The 2021 Ford Explorer can read speed limits!) I’m greatly looking forward to our first serious road trip. My wife loves Caraoke.

The M3 LR AWD accelerates scary fast. It’s instantaneous. It’s like a go-kart. I love launching the damn thing...and I love how quiet it is when you do it.

I swore I was going to pay off my 2016 RAM 1500 (I always finance, as leasing feels restrictive) and not upgrade to the newer model with the massive touchscreen, ACC, and in-cabin noise cancellation. 30 minutes with the Model 3 completely changed my mind.

 

[carlosnunezhtx]

In 2018 you could order the P3D- (performance Model 3 minus the upgrade package that gave you the 20s and larger brakes) for $5000 less than the P3D+....later in the year they discontinued the P3D-, made the P3D+ the only one orderable, and cut its price $5000.

In 2019 you could sometimes find an inventory P3D- (not available to order, but could buy an existing one out of inventory) for only a $2000 upcharge from a LR AWD.

In 2020 you could for the first few months order a P3D- but for the same price as the P3D+

Today the P3D- is back to not available new. Unknown if that'll change.

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[dmurphy]

So you say you've had clients take you for a test drive? Does that mean you haven't driven it yourself?

If not, do so. That's the only convincing you'll need.

Just be forewarned: You'll be spending your $100 order fee from the parking lot.

Especially since you say you're tech-forward. This thing is a true software-defined vehicle. The flexibility and power that brings to the platform is just stunning. You'll realize just how far behind the rest of the industry actually is.

 

[carlosnunezhtx]

So you say you've had clients take you for a test drive? Does that mean you haven't driven it yourself?

If not, do so. That's the only convincing you'll need.

Just be forewarned: You'll be spending your $100 order fee from the parking lot.

Especially since you say you're tech-forward. This thing is a true software-defined vehicle. The flexibility and power that brings to the platform is just stunning. You'll realize just how far behind the rest of the industry actually is.

Quite the contrary! I actually rented these cars myself.

I landed up financing a M3 a week after my Turo rental. I ordered it the same day I started my rental!

It’s funny that you mentioned the antiquity of ICE cars after driving a Model 3. A friend and I borrowed another friend’s 2017 Infiniti to run an errand. It felt and sounded like I traveled back in time!

 

[dmurphy]

Quite the contrary! I actually rented these cars myself.

I landed up financing a M3 a week after my Turo rental. I ordered it the same day I started my rental!

It’s funny that you mentioned the antiquity of ICE cars after driving a Model 3. A friend and I borrowed another friend’s 2017 Infiniti to run an errand. It felt and sounded like I traveled back in time!

Oh for sure - a Turo rental is a death knell for your bank account... There's no coming back from a week like that!

I meant @Siciliano - sounded like he hasn't actually been behind the wheel yet; just a passenger. One drive behind the wheel, and the deal is done!

And yes - any ICE car feels backwards now. Just so ... old.

 

[SlimJim]

Oh.. I wish.. Whenever I have to drive my wife's BMW X3, I wish it had instant torque, regen braking, auto hold, 322mile range, 3.8 sec, and 10 driver profiles.
Speaking of driver profiles... On my Model 3, I have one for driving, long distance driving (with AP), taking a nap, and supercharging. BMW has only two driver profiles. My wife and daughter use them.
Tesla is on a different realm.

 

[Siciliano]

Oh for sure - a Turo rental is a death knell for your bank account... There's no coming back from a week like that!

I meant @Siciliano - sounded like he hasn't actually been behind the wheel yet; just a passenger. One drive behind the wheel, and the deal is done!

And yes - any ICE car feels backwards now. Just so ... old.

Yes I've actually driven a few without the boost, and once in the LR with boost, during which I was the passenger. That's the cool thing about owning a business...as soon as I see someone pull in with a Tesla I get into a conversation about it and ask about it.

I'd say I've driven in about 5 different clients' M3s...and the funny thing is, I NEVER asked any of them if I could go for a drive lol they were all so enthusiastic about the car that they ALL offered.

I remember the first time - the first thing that "creeped" me out was how the car didn't move when I took my foot off the accelerator lol My friend then showed me the creep option which mimicked ICE cars, and I just thought how damn cool that was to even have that option! The other thing that stuck in my head was how cool the ventilation system was (no pun intended). You just go to the ventilation menu and pinch the screen and the air comes out more focused. That is fkn cool.

As for speed, they definitely felt fast, but for some reason I wasn't impressed - maybe because of my history owning fast cars. But then that fateful day when a client took me in their boosted M3. At the time I knew nothing about the boost, or even that it was an option. It felt fast, until he said "check this out" and he hit that sport mode toggle. Jesus Christ I wish I had a warning lol going about 30mph he must have jammed the accelerator, and it was violent. I'm a speed junkie, so it felt like a hit of some drug.

The thing I still don't understand is why it felt *SO* much faster than the M3s without the boost?? Aside from 0-60, did they massively jack up the torque?? Maybe every single other one I drove was the SR?? I'm going to have to ask next time!

 

[Uncle Paul]

Op is going through a common transformational angst.

In the past, vehicles were enhanced with fancy leather interiors with lots of cool looking buttons.
Enthusiasts wanted them with herky-jerky shifters and zoom-zoom sound.
Now it is the non pollution aspect with immediate power delivery that make them aspirational.

Once you experience the magical smooth thrust of electric drive, things will never be the same.

I went through this when I moved from my beloved Mercedes over to Tesla. After that, the Merc just sat in the garage getting dusty.

 

[oripaamoni]

@Siciliano

My previous car was a 2000 BMW 323i bought new. Had the Sport-Premium package, HID headlights, 5 speed transmission and leather seats. I buy, never lease. If I had to estimate, I'd say I spent $60K on that car over the 18 years I had it (initial cost, parts replaced out of warranty and disregarding registration, insurance and the gas and oil I put into it); so roughly $3300/yr. I tend to drive my cars into the ground and the Bimmer was no exception. I liked that car; the way it handled, the adequate power, the fairly good gas mileage (22mpg combined). However the bits-and-pieces that broke over the years, some things multiple times (don't get me started on the window regulators), left me a little disillusioned. I kinda knew about the high maintenance cost going in; they don't say BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet" without a good reason. Had 193000 miles on it when it was finally replaced by my 2018 LR RWD.

As far as maintenance on my Model 3, the only things I've had to replace in the exactly two years since I've owned it are:

• two rear tires; one had a puncture that was not fixable - replaced both since they were worn
• going to re-fill the windshield washer tank as I'm getting a warning that it's low
• going to replace the windshield wipers; nothing really wrong with them it's just because they're now two years old

I've been to the service center for the following (no cost repairs):

• tire pressure monitoring system was not calibrated correctly upon delivery of the car; reset performed
• adjusted driver side rear window as it was making contact with rear quarter window

Tesla Service repaired the following over-the-air:

• Software updates were not being applied; they re-formatted the SD card OTA

And I've had mobile service come out to my house for:

• HW3 upgrade

The 3 has been amazing as far as monthly operating costs are concerned. The car only has 18K miles on it right now, mostly because the last 10 months I've been semi-retired and the last few months we're under SIP rules. I spend about $0.07/mile for Supercharging, or about twice as much than what I did for gas in the BMW when gas is $3/gal. When I finally install my HPWC in the garage, my running costs should be lower; the Supercharger that I go to is $0.28/kWh. I'm half way through the 4 year / 50K mile basic warranty and have otherwise not required its use.

The 3 is vastly better in acceleration than the 323i, but I guess that's not really saying much. I'd have to give the BMW an edge in handling, when it was also two years old. Most of that is possibly due to the tires I had on it. Toward the end of its life, the suspension needed some work but I didn't want to pour any more money into it. I also have to rate the BMW a bit higher in the "luxury" component. I've no experience with any Audi.

Have you ever driven a 3? In my case, a little more that a year before I got my car Tesla sent an invitation offering a test drive of an S or X. I had never been in a Tesla before so I signed up. Went with the P100D S since it was somewhat closer to a 3. Loved it. Took it out on the highway and local streets with the Tesla rep. When the 3 was finally being produced I rented one for a weekend through Turo.com. That gave me a much better experience with the car. So I knew what to expect when my car rolled off the assembly line. If you haven't yet driven a 3, get your hands on one and then try driving one of your Audi in the same day. I'm predicting you'll choose the Tesla over the German import. Looks and styling be damned.

Spot on!!!

Another E46 asshole checking-in. Former 330i ZHP owner. 6 MT. Well-pampered. Loved the damn thing to death. Most balanced ICE car you can buy. Period. Peak ICE, IMO. (Fight me IRL.) Just the right looks, size, economy, practicality, comfort. Bought used. Drove it 10+ years. 100K+ miles. Far more reliable than most examples. No major issues. Endless compliments. Endless nickel & diming me. One day, the subframe had a crack - that was the end of that. German engineering my ass. Those days are gone. The chassis cracking? The ONE thing I can't fix? From regular use? A company that practically invented the sports sedan segment? Is this a joke?

Going in, you should know: Tesla still struggles in the Quality Control department. (Byproduct of technology geeks thinking they know everything.) But, overall, when I compare my Tesla's issues vs. the issues my BMW had over the same mileage, I'll happily deal with Tesla's piddly bullshit. I've really only had one problem w/ my Model 3 - turned out to be an annoying non-issue. Search wheel clicking. Dumb.

My P3D- is on bog-standard suspension and econo-MXM4s (coilovers + wheels/tires + other misc. suspension components will be installed soon, be patient!). Vaporized ///M 6 series whatevers, Dodge poopcats, Evos, brostangs, etc. My last victim was a 535i GT that had a head-start ~20 MPH roll. I was at a dead stop w/ 200 lbs of cargo. He didn't even get past my front passenger door before it was over. I think my SOC was something like 40%? Not even on the same planet. I remember I couldn't even keep up with those in my ZHP. Bonus: Perfect, consistent launches. Every. Single. Time. Bonus bonus: zero mechanical guilt. Always in the right gear. Always firmly in the powerband. No exploding transmissions, shredded differentials, thrown rods. Anyone who doesn't realize we're witnessing the genesis of an entirely new performance category is a moron. Sorry econo-peoples - you've accidentally'd a monster. What I save in petroleum, I make up in tires.

Moving on. My dad used to own a 528i 5 MT. I used to take it out when I was 15, without a license (never got caught). I liked cars, but didn't know *sugar*. But driving that car felt... special. It taught me there's more to driving than meets the eye. Even with its bottle cap wheels & all-season tires, it felt... different. Even an over-hormoned 15 year-old understood. I feel for peoples who say "I hated driving until my I drove a Model 3!" Ever driven an Exige? Prolly not.

Fast-forward to today. The Model 3 is closer to what German sports sedans used to be vs. German sports sedans today. Svelte/simple/understated/unassuming. Will wipe the floor with far louder & more expensive cars. No "LOOKET ME!" The German brands have forsaken the enthusiasts that made them what they are today. "We need to evolve with our consumer base!" said the top-floor Marketing Research dipshit. Result? The new 3 series is nearly ~186" long. My dad's '99 5 Series was ~188". All of the Audis look the same (electric razors -Sin City). Mercs are sold with fistfuls of Viagra ("we're still desirable!"). All German cars today are laden with stupid, pointless features that I, as a performance-oriented driver, could give a **** about. Got an F30 while getting my 9th Takata recall performed... Why are they measuring PSI down to the tenth? I thought I was OCD. Inline 4 turbo? In a BMW?! Oh, I can get a turbocharged I-6? Do I want that? My E46 was built back when they cared, and cars were simple(r). The back-office corporate Finance douche still hadn't a clue a world existed outside the Accord. Yet, it STILL leaked oil like a sieve by ~50K miles. It's unfathomable what these more "modren" engines must be like, today. 15 cat converters from start-to-finish!

Time to get a new car.

BMW/Audi/Merc wasn't even on my short list. Test-drove an STI... how old is the EJ engine by now? LOL! No ebo? Subaro no care. Sales guy had no clue what I was talking about - doesn't matter. You'd be an idiot to buy an STI over the new WRX as a DD. Test drove the WRX. HELLISH rev-hang. (Our political overlords have ruined manuals as well.) They sure know best! Don't belive me? Thanks Jason. Test drove a CTR. Car was a RIOT! Those side bolsters would look like *sugar* in 20K miles. But the real issue... the looks. :/ And the dealer mark-up. I'm not gonna pay you $10K over MSRP to arrive at client sites in a hopped-up Civic that looks like something from 9 Fast 9 Furious.

WTF IS THIS?

We used to rip on Mustangs for having fake hood scoops... now this. IN AN AUDI.

Time went on. There was a Tesla dealer on the way home. Everything sucks. The legacy autos have forsaken me. **** it. Wife, let's give it a shot. O what's this? A P3D? What's that? Whatever. It doesn't make any noise!!! That's neat. Let's take it onto the highway... put my foot down. WHAT. THE. ****. IS THIS!? Let's try it again, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things. 110+. Sales girl's getting a little uneasy, but she's cool. I ask: Is there a way to get this thing without the 20" donks? Yeah! About $5K less right now without the wheels! (and other pointless bits, come to find out, but that's OK. Built not bought brah!).

Are you listening, BMW? **** you. I'm the kind of guy who can keep any car running - indefinitely, as long as there's a HF nearby. I never thought I'd buy a new car. EVER. Swore against it. That's for morons who can't even change their oil. I was swayed. I bought a new car. I did. Was it a BMW? NO!

A 580 HP car that hits 60 in 3 seconds flat with none of the typical maintenance bullshit. No valve adjustments every 50K miles. No turbocharger heat soak. No carbon buildup & walnut blasting to clean your fancy DI engine. No debates about oil catch cans. No making sure it's warmed up before driving hard. No feeling like an idiot shuffling to & from work in a 500+ hp machine that gets <15 mpg in stop & go traffic that seldom sees over 35 mph. And it comfortably seats 5 people & has a crazy amount of space vs. a similarly-sized conventional car. It's the perfect high-performance DD with none of the drawbacks.

Most importantly - everything else sucks in comparison. There's nothing as good, especially at the same price point. It's either too dated, too watered-down/boring... Most manufacturers have simply forsaken the enthusiast & are computerizing every facet of the driving experience. Might as well take it all the way & go for the car that takes this concept to the extreme, but wraps it up in a novel & thrilling driving experience. "We know what millennials want!" No. You don't. But Tesla does, apparently - their chassis department consists of 4 guys who understand the way things should be (I think one of them has a 2002?).

(Disclaimer: many beer. sorry for hemingwayprose)

Whole post is spot on.

I still have my stage 3 2000 b5 s4, feels like stepping into a time machine.

 

[holmgang]

I still have my stage 3 2000 b5 s4, feels like stepping into a time machine.

A time machine to 20 years into the past?

Who would've thunk it....