Model 3 LR not currently available to order (USA) [posted 08.12.2022 --Its back! 05.02.2023]

[ZenRockGarden]

I think the reduction in range number is one way Tesla is trying to reduce criticism about their range numbers often being unachievable for many/most drivers except under ideal conditions. And if that is the reason, then I think it is a step in the right direction. Real world range not meeting expectations is a key thing slowing the adoption of EVs.

If it was a PR effort, it'd be done across all models. It's just been applied to the M3LR (no changes to M3SR, M3P etc). That says "new battery pack"

 

[42M3]

Tesla finally kicked out an email a day after the design resubmit requirement came out in the app. No mention of why the range was changed:

…

• The range will be 325+ (est.) compared to the original design of 358 miles (EPA est.). The range may increase after EPA testing is completed, but will be 325 miles (est.) at a minimum.

…

Best Regards,
The Tesla Team"

I don’t know, this still sounds like they plan on it actually having more range than the 325… from both the + and the email.

 

[E90alex]

I don’t know, this still sounds like they plan on it actually having more range than the 325… from both the + and the email.

It will probably be a bit more, but it’s going to be closer to 325 than the old 358 number. I would guess somewhere in the 330 range.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I don’t know, this still sounds like they plan on it actually having more range than the 325… from both the + and the email.

the "old" M3 AWD LR was rated 358 miles EPA... just fyi ...

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I don’t know, this still sounds like they plan on it actually having more range than the 325… from both the + and the email.

Tesla isn't stupid and they know pretty well how that new battery pack will perform in EPA cycle ... they have vehicles to run their tests...
the 325+ miles won't suddenly be 350 miles in EPA cycle...

also it's near certain a new and less capable battery pack. going from 358 miles to just 325+ miles wouldn't be happening otherwise.

 

[Diceroller]

Looks like Canada's LR range is going to come in at 534km which is 331.8 miles.

Fuel consumption ratings search tool

Use this tool to help identify the most fuel-efficient vehicle that meets your everyday needs by comparing the fuel consumption information of different models

fcr-ccc.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Looks like Canada's LR range is going to come in at 534km which is 331.8 miles.

Fuel consumption ratings search tool

Use this tool to help identify the most fuel-efficient vehicle that meets your everyday needs by comparing the fuel consumption information of different models

fcr-ccc.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca

so definitely a different battery pack and still ~(10%) less range than the "old" model which got 358 miles rated EPA

 

[Diceroller]

so definitely a different battery pack and still ~(10%) less range than the "old" model which got 358 miles rated EPA

Yeahhhh I'm going to need to see some other improvements offsetting the reduced range to go forward with this purchase. Kind of ironic to reduce the range of the model that was supposed to be geared towards...wait for it... increased range.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I think the reduction in range number is one way Tesla is trying to reduce criticism about their range numbers often being unachievable for many/most drivers except under ideal conditions. And if that is the reason, then I think it is a step in the right direction. Real world range not meeting expectations is a key thing slowing the adoption of EVs.

If Tesla has inflated its range numbers, then why wouldn't the 325+ number also be inflated? All the ranges are based on the EPA test cycle that Tesla uses. My thoughts is that 325+ was used because the official EPA test number is not yet available. But Tesla has estimated that no matter what happens, the range will be at least 325 miles.

I also agree with the people in this thread that feel that the new M3 LR range is disappointing. That, combined with the LR only partially qualifying for the FIRA tax credit will probably cause potential buyers to hold off on purchasing a M3 LR. Prospective buyers will likely wait for the refresh that may have HW4.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

If Tesla has inflated its range numbers, then why wouldn't the 325+ number also be inflated? All the ranges are based on the EPA test cycle that Tesla uses. My thoughts is that 325+ was used because the official EPA test number is not yet available. But Tesla has estimated that no matter what happens, the range will be at least 325 miles.

I also agree with the people in this thread that feel that the new M3 LR range is disappointing. That, combined with the LR only partially qualifying for the FIRA tax credit will probably cause potential buyers to hold off on purchasing a M3 LR. Prospective buyers will likely wait for the refresh that may have HW4.

I don't believe Tesla "inflates" anything. The EPA test cycle is dictated by... the EPA. It's not realistic, and there's nothing Tesla can do about it.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I don't believe Tesla "inflates" anything. The EPA test cycle is dictated by... the EPA. It's not realistic, and there's nothing Tesla can do about it.

aah... they can and do optimize for the EPA test cycle. other manufacturers optimize for real world performance.

exhibit a) 2021 Porsche Taycan is the Rare EV that Beats Its EPA-Estimated Range in Our Testing

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I don't believe Tesla "inflates" anything. The EPA test cycle is dictated by... the EPA. It's not realistic, and there's nothing Tesla can do about it.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

 

[ZenRockGarden]

aah... they can and do optimize for the EPA test cycle. other manufacturers optimize for real world performance.

exhibit a) 2021 Porsche Taycan is the Rare EV that Beats Its EPA-Estimated Range in Our Testing

I don't think there's much "gaming" of the EPA test cycle - this isn't Volkwagon running special software to detect the test is happening and running non-stock engine settings. Instead the unrealistic EPA highway test is at fault with it's mindless model that people drive 50 MPH on interstates a lot of the time. Depending on the mid speed vs high speed efficiency, aerodynamics etc - the EPA test will give mildly to wildly unrealistic range for EV's. The Taycan does better due to it's using a transmission that lets the motors run in a more optimal range up near 80 mph. Tesla doesn't use a trans (fewer parts, less cost).

 

[voldar]

The page says the M3 LR will be available in 2023, so that's when it can be ordered again.

That’s because we are in 2022 ?

 

[E90alex]

I don't think there's much "gaming" of the EPA test cycle - this isn't Volkwagon running special software to detect the test is happening and running non-stock engine settings. Instead the unrealistic EPA highway test is at fault with its mindless model that people drive 50 MPH on interstates a lot of the time. Depending on the mid speed vs high speed efficiency, aerodynamics etc - the EPA test will give mildly to wildly unrealistic range for EV's. The Taycan does better due to it's using a transmission that lets the motors run in a more optimal range up near 80 mph. Tesla doesn't use a trans (fewer parts, less cost).

There’s a bigger differential between Teslas EPA rated and real world numbers than most other manufacturers.

I believe I’ve read before that there’s extra optional tests which an automaker can chose to do which will result in a higher EPA rating and Tesla does do the optional testing. Manufacturers can also take a voluntary reduction in the ratings to publish a lower number, which Porsche does and I’m sure others do too.

It’s not that Tesla is “gaming” the system or fixing the tests, but just they are doing what’s allowed by the EPA to maximize published numbers for the absolute best case scenario, and others are intentionally keeping numbers low to provide more realistic real world numbers.

The EPA testing just needs to be more strict and consistent for everybody for the numbers to be truly meaningful.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

There’s a bigger differential between Teslas EPA rated and real world numbers than most other manufacturers.

I believe I’ve read before that there’s extra optional tests which an automaker can chose to do which will result in a higher EPA rating and Tesla does do the optional testing. Manufacturers can also take a voluntary reduction in the ratings to publish a lower number, which Porsche does and I’m sure others do too.

It’s not that Tesla is “gaming” the system or fixing the tests, but just they are doing what’s allowed by the EPA to maximize published numbers for the absolute best case scenario, and others are intentionally keeping numbers low to provide more realistic real world numbers.

The EPA testing just needs to be more strict and consistent for everybody for the numbers to be truly meaningful.

I would say the EPA test needs to be changed to model actual driver behavior instead of this 1950's idea of driving 50 mph on the highway.

(To enhance the discussion, I looked it up. EPA highway test runs an average of 48.6 MPH with a max speed of 60 mph. Yes you read that right.)

If you go out there and drive a Tesla as described (average 48.6 mph, light on the throttle, only briefly get to 60 mph) you WILL exceed the EPA rating on the car easily.

 

[E90alex]

I would say the EPA test needs to be changed to model actual driver behavior instead of this 1950's idea of driving 50 mph on the highway.

(To enhance the discussion, I looked it up. EPA highway test runs an average of 48.6 MPH with a max speed of 60 mph. Yes you read that right.)

If you go out there and drive a Tesla as described (average 48.6 mph, light on the throttle, only briefly get to 60 mph) you WILL exceed the EPA rating on the car easily.

Yes, the tests needs to be closer to real world open highway driving as well as being truly standardized between all automakers. No optional extra tests. No voluntary reductions.

But the fact remains that currently Teslas real world highway range usually the farthest off from EPA rated than other EVs. Again not saying that Tesla is doing anything shady, they’re just using all the tools at their disposal for maximum advantage.

 

[42M3]

Yeahhhh I'm going to need to see some other improvements offsetting the reduced range to go forward with this purchase. Kind of ironic to reduce the range of the model that was supposed to be geared towards...wait for it... increased range.

This being my first Tesla, and everything else taken into consideration, the Long Range is still everything I need. The Performance is $6k more plus the expense of having to change the wheels right after purchase. If only they had more wheel options. The Y might be okay if insurance wasn’t so much more expensive per month. I guess I’m fine with the battery, maybe it will actually reflect real world usage this time, in which case it won’t be as bad. But if anything else is downgraded, I might definitely hold off till Highland. But again, given the timing of this release, I don’t see it coming real soon.

 

[E90alex]

This being my first Tesla, and everything else taken into consideration, the Long Range is still everything I need. The Performance is $6k more plus the expense of having to change the wheels right after purchase. If only they had more wheel options. The Y might be okay if insurance wasn’t so much more expensive per month. I guess I’m fine with the battery, maybe it will actually reflect real world usage this time, in which case it won’t be as bad. But if anything else is downgraded, I might definitely hold off till Highland. But again, given the timing of this release, I don’t see it coming real soon.

$2250 difference if you qualify for tax credits.

But yeah the wheels were a big detractor for me against the Performance. I don’t care for the Uberturbine design to begin with and would want all season tires instead of dedicated 20” summers. A 19” all season option on the Performance would have made it more attractive for me.

 

[BigNick]

US EPA tests should use an 80 MPH highway cruising speed, and even that is slower than a lot of traffic flow. But basing the ratings on 80 MPH would provide a much better set of real-world numbers, especially for EVs which get worse mileage on the highway.

80 is the highest speed limit in all states except the parts of Texas that allow 85 MPH. 70 MPH is the max posted limit on the PA Turnpike and if you're doing 80, a good portion of the traffic is going faster than you.

Speed: Maximum posted speed limits

Speed: Maximum posted speed limits

www.iihs.org