Fog lights changing size is possible, true. However a) that would be proof of changing bumper change anyway and b) I refer to the intuitive feel that these just are different the car in the old pictures and now the car in the new pictures. It just looks different too.
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Fog lights changing size is possible, true. However a) that would be proof of changing bumper change anyway and b) I refer to the intuitive feel that these just are different the car in the old pictures and now the car in the new pictures. It just looks different too.
Well, ever open to everything as I am, do I agree it is possible that there is no change to the nose. Sure, it is possible. But I must say my gut tells me very strongly that this has changed. The foglight hunting is just looking for articulable evidence.
To me it is fairly obvious that nose "plate" is lower (less height) than it used to be, making it less prominent and more Porsche-like (which then thas changed the way the creases act).
Here is another angle.
Forget about the foglights. Concentrate on the center top part of the nose, where the bonnet meets the bumper. It seems obvious to me this area was sloping less downwards on the old prototype and thus made for a higher, sharper duckface that has now been reduced in the new production mule.
New:
Old:
Forget about the foglights. Concentrate on the center top part of the nose, where the bonnet meets the bumper. It seems obvious to me this area was sloping less downwards on the old prototype and thus made for a higher, sharper duckface that has now been reduced in the new production mule.
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Old:
I agree. It has definitely changed - the change is subtle but obvious. The duckface is more pointy and less vertical in the new car almost as if the change was driven by the requirement to reduce drag more than improve looks.
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I agree you'll need 45k+ to get a "nice" version. If you get a base Model S today, you don't get LED fogs, sunroof, the auto driving features, heated seats, upgraded sound, large wheels, or a choice of color. So yes, a base model will be "base".
I disagree that Audi or MB will be able to have a competitor in one to two year. The model S has been out since 2012 (5 years!) and I dont see anything close.
kingjamez
Member
Nothing wrong with wanting that, I want that too - and I agree in certain cases reflections certainly can play with you.
That said, I think overall every single image I've seen (or nearly) of the prototype nose looks like a tighter turning, higher, flatter face - and every (or nearly) of the production mule looks like a shallower turning, lower, less duckfaced nose... and that to my is intuitively a very powerful additional evidence.
I think I've developed a pretty keen eye on mule hunting and intuitively it feels that Tesla did tune the nose and the tail of this thing, no matter how subtly.
I could not, in good conscience claim the two noses below are tha same, even if I tried. It seems plain as day to me that Tesla tuned down the duckface, probably because it was a little controversial.
The "duckface" has become smaller, less pronounced.
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Old:
I'm happy that you are so convinced. I'm not -either way (changed, not changed). I'd say I'm agnostic. It could be tweaked, it could be the same, until we get some non-spy shots it's not really worth arguing with passion. Fun to talk about, but man people get invested in their opinions. We're all working with the same facts, it's interesting to see people differing so. I guess that's what makes the world interesting.
-Jim
N5329K
Active Member
Neither Audi (VW) nor MBZ thought it was necessary to come up with a competitor to the S until very recently. VW hired one of the founders of Tesla to help develop EV's, but still put all its chips on diesel. MBZ figured electric cars were just a passing fad. They have been dragged - kicking and quietly screaming- into trying to come up with some product that will win back a great many lost sales. So far they've excelled mainly at concept cars, but then Germans have always been the world's best model makers. Given their inherent reluctance and demonstrated inability to think systematically about EV's, I think it will be some time before they finally achieve real EV production (and real low-cost battery production).
As I have said (too) many times, Tesla has the field pretty much to itself for some years yet. They just need to avoid screwing up with the Model 3 to establish themselves atop a new and growing market.
Robin
As I have said (too) many times, Tesla has the field pretty much to itself for some years yet. They just need to avoid screwing up with the Model 3 to establish themselves atop a new and growing market.
Robin
I have no problem with this position you list there. I am just reporting what my eyes see. Is there a chance my eyes are deceived? Yes.
We all fill our free time differently and passions vary. I would not say I am invested in my opinion. I just can't seem to unsee what I see and I've been trying to communicate that. It is not just about foglight creases... overall I see a different nose plain as day.
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Here a little photoshop for a better comparison. I have taken it from this guy.
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^ This looks like a good representation of what I am seeing.
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
If anything the raging debate on the nose has showed me that I prefer the car in a darker color to a lighter color- for me the front end just "works" better when it's not so highly defined even though in general I do like silver as a car color.
And on the front plate issue mentioned recently, My 2003 Miata was driven home, the bracket was removed, and it has never had a front place in 14 years and I've never been pulled over/cited for it, so the risk is very small. That having been said I'll probably get nailed this weekend!
And on the front plate issue mentioned recently, My 2003 Miata was driven home, the bracket was removed, and it has never had a front place in 14 years and I've never been pulled over/cited for it, so the risk is very small. That having been said I'll probably get nailed this weekend!
Apparently we are all seeing what we want to see.@McHoffa I still can't agree. As per #1512, the reflections follow the crease. That's what they do. I'm not sure we are seeing what you claim we are seeing either, the new crease goes lower than your exaggeration.
See how they do here - new and old crease clearly visible. Even if you assume the crease isn't quite as up as you draw, to account for reflection inaccuracies, no way is the new crease not turning earlier and thus over the foglight...
Besides, this is not just about the crease. It is the fact that gut feeling alone tells many of us these noses are different. When you combine that with the obvious evidence such as the black image below, IMO it is quite convincing.
New - crease turning somewhere over the foglight, not at its edge:
Old - crease turning at inner edge of foglight:
It's funny that you are claiming the above 2 shots prove that the front end is different, but to me these actually show just the opposite. To me the reflections in the 2 pics flow almost identically.
Can't wait for good final pictures so we can play "I told you so". (I'm not confident that I'm right, but I'm sticking with my current opinion)
It's interesting, different strokes for different folks. I personally like the "no visible vents" approach (I think plastic adjustable vents are the ugliest part of most cars) and I think the clean look of the area in front of driver may be great. I agree that no instrument cluster is novel, but I'm waiting to drive it before I pass judgement. No problem with the display mounting. We are so conditioned to instrument cluster that a car without seems unfinished. I felt same about missing console on my 2012 S, but got used to it quickly. I feel people are confusing "new and different", and with "cheap, tacky" and a bunch of the other adjectives I've seen. I'm expecting much like S but with new, controversial dash. I still expect it to be above most cars staring at 35k.
I don't want to see this change. I see what I see. Can't be helped. Your view is of course just as valuable.
I liked the old duckface better.
Here's my best attempt to settle this argument. The crease has not moved but it has been smoothed over. There, everyone happy now?
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