Model 3 "Performance Brake Calipers" just red or different altogether?

[Evoixse]

Did you mean to say
"it's not just the color red"? The way your following sentences sound is that they told you the brakes are indeed different. But your first sentence seems to contradict that.

they told me it is simply the color red. which makes sense for the following reasons that i suspected when i initially opted out.


arugument #1:
standard model 3 = $49,000
Standard model 3 AWD = $53,000
Performance model 3 = $64,000
point #1: they use the same exact motor that simply has a double burn in process done to it, the fore worse case the motor upgrade itself cannot exceed the regular model 3 awd upgrade price = $4,000


now we have: 64,000 - 53,000 - 4,000 = 7,000 for unmentioned upgrades, which would easily include sports brakepads, calipers, and hopefully 2 piece rotors upfront.


argument #2 : performance upgrade package break down.

standard 18" aero wheels with tires on tesla store: $2,000
performance 20" with sport summer tires : 4,000
performance - standard aero = 4000-2000= +$2000

rear wing (similar ones w/o install) = +$1,000

pedals without install= +$150

155mph top speed= free......you get the higher speed from any 20" wheels and same tire size that they offer just do the math guys. lol

so that leaves us at about $3150 plus you have to pay someone 55/hr(burden cost) to install it all correctly somewhere without messing anything else up.

similar companies charge around $1000 for brake color changes.

do you really think you are going to get better calipers/pads/rotors and/or suspension in $7000 unaccounted for in the standard performance package or in the unaccounted for $1750-750 options package.

would ELON/TESLA increase manufacturing complexity by introducing 3 different brake components per corner for an additional $1750-750 or maybe just change a color? i mean i think the dead giveaway to that answer lies in the fact that they are installing the pedals and spoiler by hand elsewhere means they aren't making any huge radical changes.

also the performance brake is not a bullet point. and from pictures it still looks like a 4 pot caliper as i only see 2 circular edges similar to.

i hope this all makes sense. i just switched my performance options package off again lol. feel free to ask me to clarify anything as im not that good at explaining things i feel.

 

[Lucky13]

they told me it is simply the color red. which makes sense for the following reasons that i suspected when i initially opted out.


arugument #1:
standard model 3 = $49,000
Standard model 3 AWD = $53,000
Performance model 3 = $64,000
point #1: they use the same exact motor that simply has a double burn in process done to it, the fore worse case the motor upgrade itself cannot exceed the regular model 3 awd upgrade price = $4,000


now we have: 64,000 - 53,000 - 4,000 = 7,000 for unmentioned upgrades, which would easily include sports brakepads, calipers, and hopefully 2 piece rotors upfront.


argument #2 : performance upgrade package break down.

standard 18" aero wheels with tires on tesla store: $2,000
performance 20" with sport summer tires : 4,000
performance - standard aero = 4000-2000= +$2000

rear wing (similar ones w/o install) = +$1,000

pedals without install= +$150

155mph top speed= free......you get the higher speed from any 20" wheels and same tire size that they offer just do the math guys. lol

so that leaves us at about $3150 plus you have to pay someone 55/hr(burden cost) to install it all correctly somewhere without messing anything else up.

similar companies charge around $1000 for brake color changes.

do you really think you are going to get better calipers/pads/rotors and/or suspension in $7000 unaccounted for in the standard performance package or in the unaccounted for $1750-750 options package.

would ELON/TESLA increase manufacturing complexity by introducing 3 different brake components per corner for an additional $1750-750 or maybe just change a color? i mean i think the dead giveaway to that answer lies in the fact that they are installing the pedals and spoiler by hand elsewhere means they aren't making any huge radical changes.

also the performance brake is not a bullet point. and from pictures it still looks like a 4 pot caliper as i only see 2 circular edges similar to.

i hope this all makes sense. i just switched my performance options package off again lol. feel free to ask me to clarify anything as im not that good at explaining things i feel.

I hope your wrong but feel like every point you made makes total sense and are hard to agree against.

The only reason I have any faith that hardware is different is the fact that my phone call with the rep said it would be. Now is it the calipers, rotors or pads that are different who fricking knows.

In the end this is an area that I wish Tesla could be more transparent. I imagine most of the time this benifits them but it drives me and lots of customers nuts.
By the way love the username evoixse. I had one in black, probably my all time favorite car What an absolute weapon on the track.

 

[Evoixse]

to be honest im going nuts also but im actually a design engineer by trade and have done manufacturing internships at borg warner while in college so i understand almost all of the stuff going on and have alot of faith in him. this level of engineering is hard. and you think a solution is easy but the amount of work to get to the solutions is the misleading and hard part of it all. i just cant imagine why you wouldn't post the hardware specs or dimensions atleast anywhere?

 

[Zaphod]

I see how you arrived at your costs, but you can't use consumer costs as that is not the true cost to Tesla. There is substantial markup built into those costs so it is not realistic to base judgement off of.

The "circular edges" really are not a solid indicator of anything. Search for images of 6 piston calipers and there are some designs that still only have two "circles".

People at the service centers also sometimes know less than we do on the forums. So I'm not sure how much confidence I would put into anything they say.

I can almost guarantee the calipers are different if you get the upgrade package. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[Evoixse]

your right they are not a solid indicator but because the same team is designing them im guessing they will be using the same style of engineering. kinda like how when people solve math problems differently but in the end they use the method they know best for all of that same problem. why would they use 2 different styles? why would they upgrade the calipers and not upgrade the rotors. without the upgraded rotors there is 1/10 the benefit of the larger calipers. lastly. on the model S....the calipers are only painted for the performance version and they are the same across all of the rest. this was pointed out to me when i was inquiring another tesla store about the same question as i wanted confirmation to the first store i quoted.

and yes i can use consumer costs as the package option is a consumer cost just like the wheels and tires in their store are a consumer cost. there will be no more than a 20% variance between the two. in that case we have made 400 dollars of more wiggle room for brakes upgrades vs the $7000 that unaccounted for in the performance upgrade. they packaged their similarly to BMW package i'm guessing as it was directly compared to it in a tweet and the BMW comes with the same brakes regardless of the competition package or not. go look for yourself.

 

[kbM3]

The most important question for me with the "Performance Upgrade" is to know if the car will have better handling with this pack installed or will be just an aesthetic thing...

I mean, will the Model 3 suspension be tweaked for the 20" rims use? Are the "red calipers" calibrated for the brake force of the Model 3 mass at high speeds to reduce overheat? Does the "carbon spoiler" make any (enough) down force to be of any help at high speeds ?

If not, then clearly $5k may be "too much" for just a decorative thing...Of course, a Model 3 Performance version with just the "standard equipment" might raise some concerns too..for instance, does the 3.5 secs (0-60) can be achieved with the standard 18" wheels and tires ?

I think I will wait for the tests of the Performance Model 3 before making a decision.

I am wondering the same thing. I took it off my order only to have second thoughts with the rumors of bigger/better brakes with the package.
I do not think $5k for 20" wheels, spoiler, pedals and red calipers are worth it(10mph boost i think only handful cares about), however if it does come with different suspension or brakes I would change my order (again). I also read the tweet as performance model 3 not performance pack with performance model 3. Tesla should rename package as appearance package or have specific line items. Only Tesla can be this vague and have lines willing to commit to $60-70k car

The 20” wheels are a current add-on available through the store. Iirc they also re-tune the suspension with this upgrade. If so, that might indicate the Performance package does include a differently tuned suspension.

Edit: confirmed on Tesla.com that the 20” wheel and tire package includes rear suspension adjustment.

 

[Evoixse]

where does it call that out? can you point me to it please.

 

[brianman]

Edit: confirmed on Tesla.com that the 20” wheel and tire package includes rear suspension adjustment.

where does it call that out? can you point me to it please.

Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Tire Package
First paragraph under Description heading:

This package includes rear suspension adjustments to optimize ride quality, and is only available for installation after delivery.

 

[Evoixse]

I hope your wrong but feel like every point you made makes total sense and are hard to agree against.

The only reason I have any faith that hardware is different is the fact that my phone call with the rep said it would be. Now is it the calipers, rotors or pads that are different who fricking knows.

In the end this is an area that I wish Tesla could be more transparent. I imagine most of the time this benifits them but it drives me and lots of customers nuts.
By the way love the username evoixse. I had one in black, probably my all time favorite car What an absolute weapon on the track.

i had one in graphite gray. god i miss that thing, this car is supposed to fill the void as my AWD cadillac ATS 2.0 on e85 is just a boat that overheats on the the track non stop and pisses me off. so glad i leased the piece and can just give it back come october.

 

[Evoixse]

if you click between the standard and the options package you can see that the lettering on the calipers doesn't move. you would think that the lettering size and location would change atleast a little bit based on the size of the caliper.

the only thing that makes financial sense for such a low production run is they will put the model s brakes on it. i just remembered and took a look at the promo video as they had red calipers in that video on a model 3 and they look like model S calipers and not the model 3 calipers.

 

[juanmedina]

I am not getting the performance package but if they are different and better I will probably buy the later from a wrecked model 3.

 

[sreams]

For instance, some test reviews referred that Model 3 LR RWD with 19" wheels have a clear better handling than with 18" wheels...they also think that the Model 3 suspension was specific calibrated for the 19" wheels...18" wheels is only appropriate to try to get the maximum range possible.

If I had to guess, I'd say the improved handling has very little to do with 19" vs 18" wheels, and much more to do with the tires that are on those wheels. The 19s simply come with more performance-friendly tires.

 

[sreams]

they told me it is simply the color red. which makes sense for the following reasons that i suspected when i initially opted out.

There is absolutely no doubt that at least some iteration of the performance Model 3 has different brakes (including much larger rotors) than the standard RWD and AWD versions. The only question is whether *all* performance versions get the different brakes, or if you need to order the performance package to get them.

The picture of the first performance 3 off the line that Elon posted showed the very same large brake rotors I saw on the test car I saw at the track months ago.

 

[ppower]

I just wish there would become real confirmation what it is or isn't. I really hoped that there would be information before 7/1, but now I guess it doesn't matter so much. However, I'm afraid that if it turns out the PU is just red color, I'll take it off, cause my white paint to go up $500, have an annual $100 fee, and get pushed back in line again.

 

[Uncle Paul]

It may also be that Tesla will offer improved braking performance via software, instead of installing bigger, more expensive and heavier calipers. Just recently, when Consumer Reports reported that the Model 3 brakes were begining to degrade after multiple higher speed stops, Tesla re addresees the algorithims controlling the ABS system. Had a better braking system out in just a week or so.

In my Viper, we ran into braking issues from excessive heat. Simple solution was a set of air vents to blow cooling air over the calipers plus changing out the porportioning valve to add additonal pressure to the rears. Made a tremendous difference at the track, but the brakes were the same.

Tesla might even enhance regenerative braking to take some work off the brakes. Lots of things they could do to get additional performance out of the same brakes.

Another performance enhancer would be different compounding on the pads.

 

[lairdb]

155mph top speed= free......you get the higher speed from any 20" wheels and same tire size that they offer just do the math guys. lol

I did the math here. The tire is 0.4 inches greater in circumference, resulting in an 0.651mph difference. Something more than tire size is going on.

 

[Evoixse]

ah i didnt see that nor look into it that much, i simply went off the wheel diameter + sidewall height and did the math real quick by hand on scratch paper. anyways i'm sticking to the base model. 5k for heavier wheels and appearance package seems like a pissing contest more than anything. kinda sucks that you have to pay 5k for the extra 10 mph, i wouldn't be surprised if someone figures a way to unlock it and charges $500 for it. plus anyone that actually know how to push a car to the limit will turn those red calipers black anyways as the paint wont hold up as it never does on any "brownBo's".

 

[Evoixse]

Did I see a Performance Model 3 mule yesterday?

Seems that my logical explanation may have been spot on about the brakes afterall....performance rotors and non red brakes spotted at a supercharger...

 

[Msjulie]

This package includes rear suspension adjustments to optimize ride quality, and is only available for installation after delivery.

My understanding was the adjustment was a new piece due to clearance issues - but then I wonder, if this is true, why Tesla just wouldn't just use that different suspension link piece always... cost?

Who knows for positive sure?

 

[Petra]

Did I see a Performance Model 3 mule yesterday?

Seems that my logical explanation may have been spot on about the brakes afterall....performance rotors and non red brakes spotted at a supercharger...

And look at all the space in those wheels for brakes that are, supposedly, so large they require 20" wheels...