Model 3 "Performance Brake Calipers" just red or different altogether?

[Knightshade]

So the packages are still that - and I'd believe designed to include some things they expect people want with others they don't - continued attempt at maximizing profits while minimizing variance.

That's exactly why I don't expect the P to magically have a different suspension or any of the other never-mentioned-by-tesla differences from the AWD that some folks seem to be 'sure' it must have.... the P will be the most profitable Model 3, so it'd be in Teslas best interests to list as much as possible as upgrades that come with, or are available on, the P model to convince a higher % of buyers to select the P over the non-P AWD model.

And so far those differences amount to... 1 second quicker to 60 (via software unlock alone based on current evidence), different pedals, a spoiler, and...some kinda not-yet-detailed brake upgrade and 10 mph higher top speed on at least the 5k upgrade package (unclear if you get either on the base P right now).

You also get earlier access to white interior that everyone will get access to later and first build priority, but those aren't features of the car itself, just features of buying the most profitable one for Tesla.

 

[Msjulie]

I wish Tesla would provide the real facts here - so much conjecture, frustrating

I can easily justify the notion that all performance model 3's get the same calipers and rotors and performance + package gets red versions of those calipers with more track-appropriate brake pads.

Brake pads can be night and day for track use and as Elon continues to make comments about on the track, it's fits what I used to do with my Audi - race pads for track days, street low-dust pads otherwise. And the difference really was night and day.

Edit - larger rotors would mean different caliper carriers but I can see that in addition to brake pad upgrades...

 

[Daniel in SD]

On a serious note....It sounds like Tesla will only make the larger brake calipers ( accompanied by the larger rotors and sports suspension parts) in red. The smaller brake calipers in grey.

Performance upgraded Performance package = Red
All others = Grey.

That's pretty simple to me.

I need an agree but don't like button. I don't want to give this a thumbs up. haha

 

[PhaseWhite]

Technically Hoosier A7s are street legal. Those little notches are "tread". Haha. But yeah the manufacturer doesn't recommend it.
My predictions:
1. All Model 3s have silicon carbide inverters. More efficient and cheaper than having a bigger battery and more cooling.
2. The Performance version will not have staggered wheels. The Tesla specific P4S tires are only available in one size. Staggered wheels are dumb on an AWD car anyway.
3. The rear motor of the Performance version will produce only marginally more power than an LR. 0-60 of 3.5s vs. 5.1s only requires 50% more power, that power will come from the front motor.
4. The spoiler will have no measurable effect on performance
5. The Tesla specific P4S will have lower rolling resistance and lower traction as indicated by their higher treadwear rating.
6. I'm not sure about suspension. All Model S's have the same suspension so I'm leaning towards the Model 3 being the same.
7. I think the bigger brakes will probably be specific to the Performance Upgrade package but I hope they're included without it because that's what I've ordered.
8. The top speed difference is just software if it even exists at all.
9. The next performance Model 3 will be (more) awesome! This one seems like a way to pump up Q3 profits.

Fellow base model P3D club member here and I agree with all points (with some comments):

#1. Elon's tweet bragged about these in a way that some folks would think they were exclusive to the P3D, but that wouldn't make any sense, since the inverter is in the drive unit, which is the same (just binned) as Elon has stated in other tweets.

#7: This is a bummer if true, and was my only regret in not choosing the 5K perf upgrade. It's too bad we can't just pick the items we want. I'd pick the upgraded brakes and nothing else.

#8: This is really a useless feature in my mind. Almost nobody will go this fast, and the car wouldn't be able to sustain that speed for long anyways.

#9: Like all Teslas, a month or two after you take delivery, it will be obsolete. This is one of the double edged swords of owning a Tesla. Though I'm still holding out for a bit of a perf bump, down to 3.2s 0-60 (Please Elon)

 

[MP3Mike]

#8: This is really a useless feature in my mind. Almost nobody will go this fast, and the car wouldn't be able to sustain that speed for long anyways.

Why do you think it won't be able to maintain high speed? Heat in the rear motor shouldn't be an issue like it is in the S&X.

 

[Shizzrock]

Why do you think it won't be able to maintain high speed? Heat in the rear motor shouldn't be an issue like it is in the S&X.

To maintain that speed you're using all your horsepower, which drains your battery exponentially faster.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Why do you think it won't be able to maintain high speed? Heat in the rear motor shouldn't be an issue like it is in the S&X.

A Model S needs about 250KW to maintain 155Mph. Even if the Model 3 Motors don't experience thermal runaway at sustained power levels that high, I'd think the battery might start to have issues. High continuous power for several minutes is different than a track where you are constantly getting on and off the accel.
See: P85D going 155 mph / 250 km/h with newest .153 Firmware (Video)

Then even if all the components can hold up to this continuous power draw, I'd imagine you would run out of battery power shortly after.
Model 3 Battery is 76KWh usable. 76KWh/250KW = .3 hours or 18 minutes. But obviously the BMS would start limiting you way before that. Maybe you could hold it for 10 minutes tops?

 

[Perry]

Ok so I call the Tesla Delivery Center, a number given to me by the showrooms which didn't know much told me the delivery centers would know the most. Here are some of the confirmations I got from them regarding the difference between the performance dual motor vs the $5000 performance upgrade:

1. The 20" rims will not be staggered as some reports have said (same size front and back so tire rotation will be possible). They will be the same ones sold in the store for $4000 which are also not staggered either.

2. They told me that only the $5000 upgrade will get you performance breaks (calipers). So they are not just painting them for the upgrade. Performance calipers only come in red. If they are not red they are the regular calipers that come with standard non performance base models. I asked several times in many ways and they seemed confident about that.

3. I asked them if the suspension would be different for performance base or upgrade. They said no for both. Also asked them maybe they are differently tuned. They refereed me to the service center since they were not sure about the tuning.

 

[firebat]

Ok so I call the Tesla Delivery Center, a number given to me by the showrooms which didn't know much told me the delivery centers would know the most. Here are some of the confirmations I got from them regarding the difference between the performance dual motor vs the $5000 performance upgrade:

1. The 20" rims will not be staggered as some reports have said (same size front and back so tire rotation will be possible). They will be the same ones sold in the store for $4000 which are also not staggered either.

2. They told me that only the $5000 upgrade will get you performance breaks (calipers). So they are not just painting them for the upgrade. Performance calipers only come in red. If they are not red they are the regular calipers that come with standard non performance base models. I asked several times in many ways and they seemed confident about that.

3. I asked them if the suspension would be different for performance base or upgrade. They said no for both. Also asked them maybe they are differently tuned. They refereed me to the service center since they were not sure about the tuning.

Thanks for reaching out to them! Did you ask whether the performance brakes would fit 18" wheels?

 

[mongo]

To maintain that speed you're using all your horsepower, which drains your battery exponentially faster.

Well, a third degree polynomial at least (if we are talking kWh per minute, quadratic if kWh per mile or km)

 

[systemBuilder]

Why are you people so cynical you think that the performance package is only a software unlock? The performance models on other Teslas was NEVER just a software unlock. It required higher-power (silicon carbide) inverters and a microprocessor fuse monitoring system on the model S, and beefier power-carrying cables and connectors.

 

[Skione65]

Ok so I call the Tesla Delivery Center, a number given to me by the showrooms which didn't know much told me the delivery centers would know the most. Here are some of the confirmations I got from them regarding the difference between the performance dual motor vs the $5000 performance upgrade:

1. The 20" rims will not be staggered as some reports have said (same size front and back so tire rotation will be possible). They will be the same ones sold in the store for $4000 which are also not staggered either.

2. They told me that only the $5000 upgrade will get you performance breaks (calipers). So they are not just painting them for the upgrade. Performance calipers only come in red. If they are not red they are the regular calipers that come with standard non performance base models. I asked several times in many ways and they seemed confident about that.

3. I asked them if the suspension would be different for performance base or upgrade. They said no for both. Also asked them maybe they are differently tuned. They refereed me to the service center since they were not sure about the tuning.

@Perry,

Interesting....up until now everyone’s thinking was that they WOULD be staggered. I’m still not sure what to believe as we seem to be getting conflicting information based on who one talks to. I guess we just won’t know until someone takes delivery of their first P3D for the actual specs.

Ski

 

[systemBuilder]

Also, think about this. The $5k performance package might also have some money for warranty repairs, because when you engage ludicrous mode in a Tesla Model S, it warns you about additional wear (less lifespan) for the drivetrain and the battery. So the use of this feature might cost Tesla extra $$$ warranty repair money, so they would be forced to charge more on average for the feature.

 

[Shizzrock]

@Perry,

Interesting....up until now everyone’s thinking was that they WOULD be staggered. I’m still not sure what to believe as we seem to be getting conflicting information based on who one talks to. I guess we just won’t know until someone takes delivery of their first P3D for the actual specs.

Ski

I mean, they already sell the 20" set, so why would they make the same wheels in a different width? That would be three different sizes of the same wheel. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't make any sense if they're staggered.

 

[Shizzrock]

Well, a third degree polynomial at least (if we are talking kWh per minute, quadratic if kWh per mile or km)

I'm sorry, I only speak English

 

[Knightshade]

Why are you people so cynical you think that the performance package is only a software unlock? The performance models on other Teslas was NEVER just a software unlock. It required higher-power (silicon carbide) inverters and a microprocessor fuse monitoring system on the model S, and beefier power-carrying cables and connectors.

That's simply not true.

The P90D and P90DL for example- Ludicrous performance required a paid software unlock- the hardware was identical.

Likewise Tesla offered software-unlock-for-money on battery capacity several times on cars where they came from the factory with a bigger battery.


But mainly we think it's a software unlock because Elon Musk literally told us the drive units (which include the inverters) are the same parts between AWD and P models, just binned.

 

[Knightshade]

@Perry,

Interesting....up until now everyone’s thinking was that they WOULD be staggered.
Ski

That sure wasn't "everyones" thinking.

I (and others) thought Tesla would use the off-the-shelf non-staggered 20s they already were selling by themselves- because that by far made the most sense from supply and MFG perspective.

 

[Skione65]

That sure wasn't "everyones" thinking.

I (and others) thought Tesla would use the off-the-shelf non-staggered 20s they already were selling by themselves- because that by far made the most sense from supply and MFG perspective.

@Knightshade,

Well....I guess you’re not “everyone” then..... I’m trying to think of a “non-confrontational” “non-argumentative” positive post you’ve made...but I digress...

Ski

 

[SA4444462]

That manager is 100% incorrect. RWD brakes are completely different.

What do you know that the manager i spoke to doesn't? Everyone is just speculating.

When I originally placed the order, the order form said "Performance Calipers" on the 5k package. The order confirmation showed the 20" rims, spoiler and metal petals, but nothing about performance Calipers, which didn't leave a good feeling. Maybe this means nothing. But when someone at Telsa tells me there's no difference in the brakes, that means something. Hope he's wrong, because 60-0 in 133' is horrible for a 70k+ car. The brakes in my 2004 Audi S4 are great 60-0 in 117' (based on official reviews). Might even stop shorter with the Michelin Super Sports i have on now (and love the tires), versus the stock Continentals. A new performance car should beat my 14 year old car. Can only hope at this point. If information comes out that the 5k package includes better brakes, I'll try to change my order. Until then, 5k for 20" rims/tires, spoiler and metal petals isn't worth it. Would rather source 20" rims/tires after market and use the 18" rims for winter tires.

 

[systemBuilder]

But mainly we think it's a software unlock because Elon Musk literally told us the drive units (which include the inverters) are the same parts between AWD and P models, just binned.

So is an i7-8700k processor from Intel the same thing as an i3-8100? After all, the i7-8700k version is just a 'binned' version of the i3. Same goes for Ryzen 1800x vs. 1200. They are EXACTLY the same CPU, the 1800x is just 'binned', right? No difference? I fail to understand your logic.