Yes, he implied during the Q&A that there would be some alternate payment system for Model 3 owners who did not pre-pay for the lifetime charging option. He implied that this alternate payment would effectively be cheaper than driving on gasoline but did not give details of how this alternate payment system would work.
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Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion
- Thread starter rnelsonee
- Start date
If they do pay-per-use it will cost way more than the electricity since you need to pay your share of:
- The electricity (cheap)
- The Supercharger network build out and maintenance (not cheap)
- The extra DC fast charging hardware in your car. (not cheap, but maybe cheaper in the Model 3)
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Good lord. We all heard the same meeting. The Model 3 base model will not have SCing enabled - exactly as many have long predicted. Buy the package and it's enabled. So simple. Presumably it will be available after the fact for a higher cost.
There will be no pay per use model. If anything, there could easily be an annual or periodic subscription. But even that becomes overkill.
It's funny to watch non-owners or owners who don't travel try to debate or endorse inefficient SC pay per use models. Drive cross country one time and you'll realize how bad of an idea that would be, especially relative to one-time activation (confirmed today) or to annual/seasonal subscriptions for that matter.
Keep the transactions away from the SCs, folks. It would be an absolute mess.
There will be no pay per use model. If anything, there could easily be an annual or periodic subscription. But even that becomes overkill.
It's funny to watch non-owners or owners who don't travel try to debate or endorse inefficient SC pay per use models. Drive cross country one time and you'll realize how bad of an idea that would be, especially relative to one-time activation (confirmed today) or to annual/seasonal subscriptions for that matter.
Keep the transactions away from the SCs, folks. It would be an absolute mess.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Please stop with the non-owner or owners who don't travel garbage. I bet I've traveled a ton more than you to places with EVSE's where you have to pay-per-use, including with my Chademo adapter along the number 3 highway in BC that is all pay-per-use. There's nothing difficult about it at all and Superchargers would be even easier than private companies that charge for EVSE access since Tesla knows each car when it plugs in. If a Model 3 owner bought a 20 pack pay-per-use package it would be easy peasy (that's a technical term).
Having said that, I agree that it won't be pay-per-use for the Model 3, but a one time fee for the larger battery option. But I don't know this for a fact and neither do you or anyone else here.
Ha! So I take it you don't agree with his statement that he is the Shakespeare of our time?
I can't stand the guy either but his quote sure fit.
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plankeye
That Vegan EV Guy
The Verge has Elon's quote from the meeting here:
Elon Musk suggests Tesla Model 3 won't get free Supercharger use
Unfortunately I think that Elon (as usual) didn't choose the best words when he spoke. He said that "something" would be cheaper than gasoline. If he meant Supercharging in particular, the only way that would be true is if the up-front cost to get "free" supercharging is very cheap ($500 or less), or if the M3 owner used Superchargers on a VERY regular basis, like for local charging. For the rest, who only use Superchargers for long trips, once or twice per year, Supercharging will be far more expensive than gasoline.
Elon Musk suggests Tesla Model 3 won't get free Supercharger use
Unfortunately I think that Elon (as usual) didn't choose the best words when he spoke. He said that "something" would be cheaper than gasoline. If he meant Supercharging in particular, the only way that would be true is if the up-front cost to get "free" supercharging is very cheap ($500 or less), or if the M3 owner used Superchargers on a VERY regular basis, like for local charging. For the rest, who only use Superchargers for long trips, once or twice per year, Supercharging will be far more expensive than gasoline.
Could there be multiple packages? 1) Unlimited supercharging for $2,000. 2) Four supercharging visits per year for $1,000. Would this get around the utility regulations some have mentioned while still allowing for occasional supercharging visits?
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Here the thing is... You get what you pay for. That also means you pay for what you get.I find the views on here really strange since there are vehicles out there now that have to pay for supercharging:
Tesla — Enable Supercharging
So it never makes sense to charge for supercharging?
I'd sure be upset to have paid for a new S60 a couple of years ago only to find out that new Model 3's come with free supercharging for no additional fee. It won't happen, if you ask me. There's going to be a fee. Whether it's an option as one time fee, pay-per-use or some other system is all that remains to be seen, in my opinion. Once again, if Tesla was going to make every Model 3 come with free supercharging they would advertise it as such since it would result in more orders. So these arguments being made can be shot down at so many different levels.
Then again, only time will tell.
Are you also angry that for the past year or so people who bough a Tesla Model S 70D or Model S 70 have been able to enjoy 10 kWh more capacity, dual motor driving efficiency, and Supercharger access for effectively the same price as the Model S 60 you got?
I predicted two years ago that the Model S 60 would go away ahead of the release of the Model ☰ or introduction of any other Generation III variants. I presumed that from that point forward, all future releases would be Supercharger enabled. I also hoped that in addition to that, in preparation for Model ☰'s release, Tesla Motors might enable Supercharging on all Model S 60 vehicles. In my wildest dreams, I also hoped that they would unlock all the Model S 40 vehicles to be 60 kWh capacity, and activate Supercharging on all those as well. By the time the Model ☰ begins reaching Customers, there will be over 200,000 combined Model S & Model X owners worldwide, and the number of buyers that didn't have Supercharger access enabled will be a rather small percentage of those cars. One way to prop up resale value for all of those cars would be to enable Supercharger access. So far, it seems that if someone trades in a Model S 60 or Model S 40 that doesn't have Supercharging, Tesla Motors will just activate full range and Supercharger access before putting them back on the market. But I still feel that at some point, the marketing benefit of making sure that not just every future vehicle, but every single operational Model S in the world has Supercharging enabled will be more fruitful than having any that aren't. Yes, even over the protests of the handful of people who got what they paid for, and paid for what they got.
And let's be clear: It will NEVER make sense to pay for Supercharging via a pay-per-use, or subscription plan.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
plankeye
That Vegan EV Guy
Since the 60 is gone, I hope they lower the entry price for Supercharging for M3. If it was $1000, or maybe even $1500, I'll probably go for it. Because I really do want to travel in the M3, and as @ZAKEEUS said, there's also value in the ability to travel cross-country in an EV, not just for the electricity.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Yes, it might be something like this. I think it is unlikely there will be POS charges, due to complexity. But there could be a monthly or annual subscription. Or purchase a number of visits, as you suggest. Those methods would avoid POS billing, electricity reselling, and local sales tax issues, I would guess.
Having made 22 Supercharger stops in the last two weeks (2971 mile road trip) buying the full Supercharger access is an easy decision for me. But it would make sense to have other options for those who mostly stick close to home and are stretching just to be able to afford a Model 3.
I think you all are way way overstating how difficult or obstructive a pay per model would be. There is no need for any additional equipment.
ZBB
Emperor
Model S 60 owner here -- I paid the $2k at purchase to have Supercharging enabled, even though I had to wait about 7-8 months for Superchargers to open up that I could reach. I've since Supercharged 66 times on road trips, and will go over 100 total supercharger visits on a road trip this summer (~4200 miles through. 9 states and 1 Canadian province).
When Tesla changed the Model 3 site to say "supercharging capable", I figured that they would make it optional, and Elon's comments today indicate it will be similar to the S60...
I'm guessing it will be optional on the base model for $2k when ordering and enabled after purchase for $2.5k -- perhaps $500 less for each (depends if Tesla keeps the same pricing on options for the 3). I'd also expect to have supercharging included in the larger battery option...
For those of you that don't road trip often, I didn't either before getting the S... When buying the option, I figured we'd use it once a year for a summer trip to the beach, and that $2k for supercharging was less than renting an ICE once a year for a few years... But it turned out that we put more miles on our S than any previous car -- over 51k miles in 3 years. About 10k of those are road trips -- over 3x what I expected to put on in road trips.
When Tesla changed the Model 3 site to say "supercharging capable", I figured that they would make it optional, and Elon's comments today indicate it will be similar to the S60...
I'm guessing it will be optional on the base model for $2k when ordering and enabled after purchase for $2.5k -- perhaps $500 less for each (depends if Tesla keeps the same pricing on options for the 3). I'd also expect to have supercharging included in the larger battery option...
For those of you that don't road trip often, I didn't either before getting the S... When buying the option, I figured we'd use it once a year for a summer trip to the beach, and that $2k for supercharging was less than renting an ICE once a year for a few years... But it turned out that we put more miles on our S than any previous car -- over 51k miles in 3 years. About 10k of those are road trips -- over 3x what I expected to put on in road trips.
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Kickin
Member
I thought the same thing before I got my car, now I have 41k miles on it in less than a year! Having supercharging paid upfront allowed me to justify taking road trips and not have to worry about paying for fuel on the go
It's not the equipment, it's the fact that re-selling electricity if you aren't a utility is illegal in some places. Thank your local power company for those lovely laws.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
How do you know where I travel? I use the Hope BC Supercharger twice practically every weekend. It's halfway to and from my cabin. But once you go past my cabin, on the number 3 highway heading east, there are no more Superchargers. I like to do that drive, into wine country, to Osoyoos and beyond. Then you must use pay-per-use Chademo's with an adapter, or free level 2's. It's really easy to use the pay-per-use system, which I prefer, for faster charging.
My daughter is at UBCO in Kelowna BC where there is a Supercharger that I use a lot. I also travel down through the States quite frequently using the Superchargers. I bet I use SC's more than you. I know exactly what I am talking about. A pay-per-use Supercharger system would be easy to implement and use. But I agree it probably won't happen. I say that only because I believe Tesla is concerned a pay-per-use system would overload Superchargers at peak holiday travel times and also stop many people from upgrading to get it.
That's my reasoning -- from personal experience and from my guess work. If you read my posts on this issue going back some time, you will see that I have been proven right so far on this issue.
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You can't get around that by saying you're paying for the temporary parking space and the electricity is free?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
As I said above, they don't need to charge for the electricity, but for the "use" regardless of the amount of energy used. Buying a package of say 20 uses per year, for a set fee, doesn't violate any laws of any states, since they are not selling the electricity but access to the Superchargers, as they do now with S60.
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