model 3 weight vs performance

[30seconds]

The Model S is about 4,600 lbs vs 3,500 for the Chevy Volt. If Tesla can produce the Model 3 around 3,800 lbs it will be in some interesting company, especially given the low center of gravity.


Nissan GTR: 3,800 lbs
BMW M4: 3,600 lbs
Porsche 911 turbo: 3,600 (its bigger than you think)

 

[JeffK]

The Model S is about 4,600 lbs vs 3,500 for the Chevy Volt. If Tesla can produce the Model 3 around 3,800 lbs it will be in some interesting company, especially given the low center of gravity.


Nissan GTR: 3,800 lbs
BMW M4: 3,600 lbs
Porsche 911 turbo: 3,600 (its bigger than you think)

Considering they were aiming for 20% lighter than the Model S, I'd say they are probably going to hit the mark.

 

[timk225]

I think the 3 will be around 4000 pounds. The smaller size and different materials will help, but it will still have to have all the same safety stuff and the big battery pack.

 

[JeffK]

I think the 3 will be around 4000 pounds. The smaller size and different materials will help, but it will still have to have all the same safety stuff and the big battery pack.

The battery pack needs nearly half the cells though.

 

[tadslippy]

So, there have been plenty of threads about P and P+L performance hopes and what the 3 system is fully capable of at the insane end. What's the current thinking on performance benchmarks from the non-P models rolling out this year/early next? Seems there should be a pretty direct comparison between the S: 75D and a targeted 10-20% lighter 3: 75D. Could that amount of weight reduction shave close to a second off 0-60 times from similarly powered the S?

Is something like this wishful thinking for the non-P models?

3: 55/60 5.8s (under 6)
3: 55/60D 5.5s (in line with the audi a4)
3: 75 4.8s (vs 5.5s for the S: 75)
3: 75D 4.5s (vs 5.2s for the S: 75D, and 4.4s with the 340xi and s4 at 4.4s)

 

[zer0cool]

Tadslippy, I think you are right on the money with your predicted acceleration times.

 

[Drivesolo]

Would Tesla be inclined to sell the 75(D) TM3 with the capabilities of significantly our performing the 75(D) TMS at a significantly lower cost even taking into account the TMS is a larger, more luxurious car with, improved features?

 

[bcsteeve]

Yes, yes they would. Tesla is inclined to sell cars. The Model 3 is going to absolutely dwarf the figures for the S/X. They are CURRENTLY inclined to downsell a car that doesn't exist. Once it exists, I can't see them holding back on the 3 just to appease S owners. The S outperforms the Roadster. If they cared to keep legacy owners happy, they would never have allowed that "cheap" Model S compete with a much more expensive Roadster, right?

With that said, the Model 3 isn't meant to be a performance car. So my above paragraph is intended to say that "if" the Model 3 could be faster, than it will be faster. But I personally don't think that will be the case... just that it won't be artificially slowed down just to justify S's price.

 

[JeffK]

So, there have been plenty of threads about P and P+L performance hopes and what the 3 system is fully capable of at the insane end. What's the current thinking on performance benchmarks from the non-P models rolling out this year/early next? Seems there should be a pretty direct comparison between the S: 75D and a targeted 10-20% lighter 3: 75D. Could that amount of weight reduction shave close to a second off 0-60 times from similarly powered the S?

Is something like this wishful thinking for the non-P models?

3: 55/60 5.8s (under 6)
3: 55/60D 5.5s (in line with the audi a4)
3: 75 4.8s (vs 5.5s for the S: 75)
3: 75D 4.5s (vs 5.2s for the S: 75D, and 4.4s with the 340xi and s4 at 4.4s)

The AWD reveal cars were about 6 seconds from to 0-60. Would you consider 5.5 seconds "a lot faster"
Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[bcsteeve]

So, there have been plenty of threads about P and P+L performance hopes and what the 3 system is fully capable of at the insane end. What's the current thinking on performance benchmarks from the non-P models rolling out this year/early next? Seems there should be a pretty direct comparison between the S: 75D and a targeted 10-20% lighter 3: 75D. Could that amount of weight reduction shave close to a second off 0-60 times from similarly powered the S?

Is something like this wishful thinking for the non-P models?

3: 55/60 5.8s (under 6)
3: 55/60D 5.5s (in line with the audi a4)
3: 75 4.8s (vs 5.5s for the S: 75)
3: 75D 4.5s (vs 5.2s for the S: 75D, and 4.4s with the 340xi and s4 at 4.4s)

I think you're making the same mistake in logic that a lot of guys are when trying to apply linear math to this. A *lot* of factors affect zero to 60 times (which are irrelevant really) beyond just the weight of the car. We have NO idea what the performance specs of the Model 3 motors are vs. the Model S. At this point, we don't even know what the Model 3 system voltage is. We can take (with a grain of salt) his "under 6 seconds" remark as some sort of truth, but that might end up being the fully loaded PXXD version. Musk has OFTEN had to kind of "well, that's not what I meant" his previous statements, let alone hints. Originally the 3 was supposed to have free access to the supercharger network and a space ship HUD (a rumor he only killed after it became clear he couldn't do it). I'd take that "under 6" the same way.

I personally will not be surprised if the base Model 3 is over 6 seconds. I'm predicting 6.1 or 6.2... primarily because they'll do everything they can to get it under the Bolt's 6.3. But every tenth is difficult! And expensive.

But that's just my guess. And I really don't care, because zero-to-whatever times are completely irrelevant to me. It could be 10 seconds and still out accelerate what I'm driving now.

 

[JeffK]

We can take (with a grain of salt) his "under 6 seconds" remark as some sort of truth, but that might end up being the fully loaded PXXD version.

No, even the base model will be 0-60 in under 6 seconds, you can take that to the bank.

Originally the 3 was supposed to have free access to the supercharger network and a space ship HUD (a rumor he only killed after it became clear he couldn't do it). I'd take that "under 6" the same way.

No, it was always supercharging capable, no one said free access:

Also no one said anything about a HUD. He simply said the steering controls will "feel" like a spaceship not that it will "look" like a spaceship or have a HUD like some sci-fi spaceships.

 

[david_42]

I'd have to agree with bcsteeve on the irrelevance of 0-60 times. I'm much more interested in base acceleration for passing on two-lane highways and maneuvering on city streets; we won't be getting AWD.

 

[Dynastar]

I wouldn't be surprised if the base RWD 3 was motor-limited, not battery-limited, for power. That would give all RWD variants roughly the same 0-60 times.

 

[igotzzoom]

So, there have been plenty of threads about P and P+L performance hopes and what the 3 system is fully capable of at the insane end. What's the current thinking on performance benchmarks from the non-P models rolling out this year/early next? Seems there should be a pretty direct comparison between the S: 75D and a targeted 10-20% lighter 3: 75D. Could that amount of weight reduction shave close to a second off 0-60 times from similarly powered the S?

Is something like this wishful thinking for the non-P models?

3: 55/60 5.8s (under 6)
3: 55/60D 5.5s (in line with the audi a4)
3: 75 4.8s (vs 5.5s for the S: 75)
3: 75D 4.5s (vs 5.2s for the S: 75D, and 4.4s with the 340xi and s4 at 4.4s)

If anything, maybe a tad conservative. I'm thinking the top-line 75D might be sub-4.

 

[JeffK]

If anything, maybe a tad conservative. I'm thinking the top-line 75D might be sub-4.

I wouldn't call just sub 4 ludicrous, would you?

 

[igotzzoom]

I wouldn't call just sub 4 ludicrous, would you?

Possibly Ridiculous, definitely not Ludicrous.

 

[JeffK]

Possibly Ridiculous, definitely not Ludicrous.

Exactly, this is how I'm hoping Elon feels too about just sub 4.
Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[T34ME]

Exactly, this is how I'm hoping Elon feels too about just sub 4.
Elon Musk on Twitter

Be aware that Tesla is apparently limiting the number of "launches" in Ludicrous mode on the MS. Check out this thread and be informed: Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

It doesn't matter to me because ludicrous is not part of my driving vernacular.

 

[JeffK]

Be aware that Tesla is apparently limiting the number of "launches" in Ludicrous mode on the MS. Check out this thread and be informed: Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

It doesn't matter to me because ludicrous is not part of my driving vernacular.

Supposedly this was never the case with the P100D due to the new battery cooling design and supposedly they've reenabled it under certain conditions do i wouldn't worry about it.

You might head over to electrek every once in a while to keep up with news.

 

[silentsnow31802]

Be aware that Tesla is apparently limiting the number of "launches" in Ludicrous mode on the MS. Check out this thread and be informed: Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

It doesn't matter to me because ludicrous is not part of my driving vernacular.

Supposedly this was never the case with the P100D due to the new battery cooling design and supposedly they've reenabled it under certain conditions do i wouldn't worry about it.

You might head over to electrek every once in a while to keep up with news.

This is no longer the case. They have removed the restriction with a software update.