Model 3's Ride Quality

[shrspeedblade]

Could be relevant, I'm 59 years old and had been driving Lincoln Town Cars prior to getting my Model S, by comparison the model S rides like a Buckboard and I have active air suspension. Perhaps someday someone will make a compelling EV with a suspension option or a means to tune the suspension for those of us who still appreciate the classic Boulevard ride.

Not all of us are interested in going from 0 to 60 with our hair on fire or having racetrack Ready cars some of us just want a nice comfortable quiet ride.

It's not so much an age thing, as there are 60 year old track rats that want a firm responsive ride and 20 somethings that don't.

I could only assume you have your Model S set to "comfort" with the air suspension? Also do you have the stock 19s or the 21s?

Don't drive a lot like this, but drop the pressures down to 32psi on all 4 tires and go for a short drive with the Model 3 over a bumpy section of road. Any difference? (Keeping in mind as has been mentioned the suspension WILL soften up as it 'wears in, but it's never going to be a Lincoln Town Car, along with just about anything else.)
I for one am dubious of these super high pressures Tesla is recommending people run.

 

[Big Earl]

It's not so much an age thing, as there are 60 year old track rats that want a firm responsive ride and 20 somethings that don't.

I could only assume you have your Model S set to "comfort" with the air suspension? Also do you have the stock 19s or the 21s?

Don't drive a lot like this, but drop the pressures down to 32psi on all 4 tires and go for a short drive with the Model 3 over a bumpy section of road. Any difference? (Keeping in mind as has been mentioned the suspension WILL soften up as it 'wears in, but it's never going to be a Lincoln Town Car, along with just about anything else.)
I for one am dubious of these super high pressures Tesla is recommending people run.

My husband and I are a good example of two people with difference suspension tastes. We have a VW Touareg with air suspension and adaptive damping. He prefers to drive in comfort while I prefer sport or automatic.

Note that Tesla does not offer adaptive damping in any of their vehicles. The air suspension is only height adjustable. The comfort/standard/sport settings in the car controls screen are only for the steering wheel.

I really wish Tesla would offer adaptive damping. It would greatly improve the ride characteristics of their vehicles and add a premium element that they are currently missing.

 

[Carl]

147 posts all discussing issues that are common to road vehicles. Understandable.
In context for my opinions, I have owned a Morgan+8, possibly the harshest ride of any ‘modern’ age vehicle. I enjoyed it. I also owned a Citroën CX, clearly at the other extreme. I enjoyed it.

I now have a P85D+ and adore it. Recently I replaced the ‘W’ rated OEM with ‘X’ rated tires. Skip the brand and style for a moment because lowering the speed rating produces a more comfortable ride independent of all the suspension tuning issues. Run flats are the worst of all. Why? The higher the speed rating the stiffer the tire precisely to reduce tire heat build up.

Since the OEM Model 3 tires are ‘W’ and the suspension tuning is skewed to responsiveness, it is just possible that switching to less stiff tires might work wonders. For context, on my Morgan, even ‘civilians’ could tolerate it when I switched to less stiff sidewalls.

Those who suggest a tire change cannot make a big difference are misinformed.
OTOH, those who suggest slightly lower tire pressure and waiting a few thousand miles are completely correct. The sidewall stiffness does reduce with time and, importantly, caring slightly lower pressure accelerates the tire breakin. Just don’t overdo it. If you are seriously analyzing-compulsive try replacing the air with nitrogen ( every light airplane hangar has nitrogen), which compresses a trifle more easily than does air and has the added advantage of leaking less than does air.

I recommend trying any of these cheap and easy solutions before giving up.

Thanks for the informative post.
If you replace air with nitrogen, should you use the same time pressure as with air?

 

[tccartier]

My husband and I are a good example of two people with difference suspension tastes. We have a VW Touareg with air suspension and adaptive damping. He prefers to drive in comfort while I prefer sport or automatic.

Note that Tesla does not offer adaptive damping in any of their vehicles. The air suspension is only height adjustable. The comfort/standard/sport settings in the car controls screen are only for the steering wheel.

I really wish Tesla would offer adaptive damping. It would greatly improve the ride characteristics of their vehicles and add a premium element that they are currently missing.

What she said!

I might add, I'm a mechanic by trade and have dabbled in the engineering side of things as well for my entire career. That said. I'm very familiar with chassis and suspension dynamics. As was said the air suspension on Model S is only height adjustable the damping rates cannot be changed by any setting. I do run the recommended tire pressures keeping mine at approximately 45 PSI cold on 19in wheels and tires as recommended. I do understand that if I were to reduce the pressure it can take some of the harshness out of the overall feel of the car when going down the road but it also can and does have adverse effects on range and tire wear. Tires on these things already don't last long enough

 

[llngoc]

I have 19" and I am quite happy with the ride.

This is great news, my wife won't let go of her e46 with sport suspension, maybe this will be the clincher. Sounds like this might be a bit harsher though, was that on the 19"?

 

[insaneoctane]

The 3 we just picked up doesn't feel that stiff. It's definitely softer than an old P85 S. It really feels like a 3-series BMW or thereabouts. Certainly not uncomfortable, just appropriate for a sport sedan.

Suspension preference is subjective. That said, while I've never owned a BMW, I've been in 3 series BMWs (and other BMWs). I often got out of them, noticing, and saying "BMW knows how to tune the suspension of their cars!". I found it interesting that other makes never made me say that, but BMW did. Again, subjective, but your comment (and all the others that compare it to the BMW 3-series), have me expecting that I will be very happy with the Model 3's suspension!

 

[Xminus6]

I hope so. The only BMW suspension that I had extensive experience with was my own E46 M3. M cars tend to be on the stiffer side of suspension tuning obviously. The 3 is not as stiffly sprung as that car was but it's not too far off either.

 

[jbcarioca]

Thanks for the informative post.
If you replace air with nitrogen, should you use the same time pressure as with air?

Yes. BTW, I use nitrogen in my BMW in Brazil and in my S. A major advantage in bad roads is that is it less likely to lose pressure when subjected to road hazards. That is why aircraft use nitrogen; landing does produce sharp impacts. BTW, it's due to the larger nitrogen molecule than that of the oxygen component in air.

 

[Sportstick]

Yes. BTW, I use nitrogen in my BMW in Brazil and in my S. A major advantage in bad roads is that is it less likely to lose pressure when subjected to road hazards. That is why aircraft use nitrogen; landing does produce sharp impacts. BTW, it's due to the larger nitrogen molecule than that of the oxygen component in air.

Nitrogen is fine as long as you are not paying for it. Air is already 78% N2, so the incremental percentage is useful for such heavy duty uses as aircraft (heat management is the issue, not the landing forces) or racing cars. But for daily "civilian" use, the difference is nil to negligible. Nitrogen is mostly sold for profit, not performance...another marketing money-maker. The benefit is not so much with road hazards as that over time, the larger nitrogen molecule doesn't bleed out as quickly through the somewhat permeable rubber tire. If you hit a road hazard and damage a wheel or valve, the nitrogen will leave as quickly as the air would have.

For having to check tires less often, there is some value, but not worth paying much or anything for it.

 

[jbcarioca]

Nitrogen is fine as long as you are not paying for it. Air is already 78% N2, so the incremental percentage is useful for such heavy duty uses as aircraft (heat management is the issue, not the landing forces) or racing cars. But for daily "civilian" use, the difference is nil to negligible. Nitrogen is mostly sold for profit, not performance...another marketing money-maker. The benefit is not so much with road hazards as that over time, the larger nitrogen molecule doesn't bleed out as quickly through the somewhat permeable rubber tire. If you hit a road hazard and damage a wheel or valve, the nitrogen will leave as quickly as the air would have.

For having to check tires less often, there is some value, but not worth paying much or anything for it.

All probably true. Heat buildup in aircraft tires happens primarily on landing, and the bounces are indeed factors, not minimal. Road hazards can Destry tires and wheels but lesser bumps tend to cause some leakage. Indeed air is majority nitrogen, but the remainder can be problematical not least because nitrogen is inert, oxygen and other air components are not.

I completely agree that paying for nitrogen at any appreciable level is a waste. Most GA airplane shops tend to do it for free, especially if they like the car.

 

[Big Earl]

What she said!

He*

We're both men.

 

[3mp_kwh]

No 3, just observation.
On specs, a 3,800lb Tesla won't feel like a 4,600+ pound Tesla. It's very hard to imitate what almost 1,000 pounds can do for "boulevard" feel. That said, the 3,600 pound Volt, I had, felt as "Buick" (in a good way) as I imagine any EV could. The reason I think you can't soften the Tesla that much is power. The issues with porpousing P85s, when their inside fronts would lift as the outside rears squated under throttle while turning, were partly because of all the power and the rear wheel drive (RWD). The Volt is front drive, and inherrently safer to stomp for that reason, as well as its lower power. So, they could soften.

Model 3 is likely stiff in RWD trim, to accomodate its power and keep stable when folks jab the throttle in turns. I'm a RWD coil guy (instructed PCA), but have converted to AWD coil because of how much the Model S settles out and handles deeper/faster throttle inputs in turns, without getting flustered. I find AWD agile, and don't believe RWD made a great platform to throttle steer with, anyway. The nanny settings don't allow it, and the weight between the axles doesn't seem to call for it, in the first place.

I'm saddened Tesla now forces air suspensions, and don't know what to make of the "Made in Mexico" tags on Model 3's shock absorbers. They started with Bilstein (on coil Model S, like PASM Porsches) and Continental air units. Then came Firestone air units (who hasn't really got a name in struts). I hope they got it right. Suspension feedback sounds good, to my ears.

People are never satisfied. They want to be driving on a cloud, but when the situation demands it, they want the car to react like a Formula 1 car. You can't have it both ways. You either get great handling, or you get a comfy mushy ride. There is no in between.

There are definitely suspensions that do a bad enough job at both ride and handling, that you'll think you're having your cake and eating it too after replacement. It's sort of the same message being echoed in this thread, about tires.

 

[K-MTG]

I just sat as a rear-passenger (first time in the 3) and it was pretty rough. It doesn't feel as bad on the front seats...but why on the back?? Much more bumpy compared to the rear seats on my X...I will try reducing my tire pressure. Currently 51 while they are hot...but I wouldn't want to sit in the back for long drives...it is not that bad when I am driving though.

 

[Waverider]

My 2012 BMW 328i had severe vibration issues around 45mph when I first took delivery. Rebalancing the wheels helped a little. Eventually I got used to it and/or the tires got somewhat broken in. Once it was time to replace the original stock Continental tires I went with Perelli runflats and there was a night-and-day difference in ride quality. So much softer feel overall and no vibration. I couldn't say if it was a problem inherent to the specific set of tires I had or to the entire production run but I'd bet the OP has a similar issue.

 

[fmcotton]

I just sat as a rear-passenger (first time in the 3) and it was pretty rough. It doesn't feel as bad on the front seats...but why on the back?? Much more bumpy compared to the rear seats on my X...I will try reducing my tire pressure. Currently 51 while they are hot...but I wouldn't want to sit in the back for long drives...it is not that bad when I am driving though.

This is unfortunate. I am excited about most every aspect of the car, but the hard suspension reports are concerning. I’m concerned enough that if I received my email today, I don’t think that I could place my order without riding in one first to see if it is something I’d be okay living with for several years.

 

[CO2CLEAN]

This is unfortunate. I am excited about most every aspect of the car, but the hard suspension reports are concerning. I’m concerned enough that if I received my email today, I don’t think that I could place my order without riding in one first to see if it is something I’d be okay living with for several years.

I have sat in the back of the Model 3 in Los Angeles on October 27th and it was firm, but not unpleasant. I even sat in the middle spot which is firmer than the "full" seats on left and right and I don't think it is an issue for most people. But there are people who prefer to have a soft (or even very soft, mushy) suspension and they might want to sit in the back before buying. In my humble opinion it is very similar to the Model S (2015-2016 MY)

 

[3mp_kwh]

I’m concerned enough that if I received my email today, I don’t think that I could place my order without riding in one first to see if it is something I’d be okay living with for several years.

It's wrong NOT to test drive a car, before you buy it. I wouldn't feel bad. Some buyers (possibly self-included, but for the dash controls) will love it after plunking 55K. Others will have regret, many denying it. Then, their denial or other agenda distorts these pages. Consumers feel they're part of something, and that's great, but it also gives Tesla a lane to take advantage: including, "here's your car. Now, scram!".

 

[shrspeedblade]

It should be noted that slightly longer springs with lower spring rates or softer/adjustable shocks aren't really that expensive (two hundred bucks for springs) in the aftermarket and something hundreds of thousands of people change every year- usually to lower and stiffer- because they want to alter the ride and handling of their car. I personally am not happy about it but I strongly suspect they will dial back the suspension aggressiveness down the road much like they did for the early P85Ds.

I'm a Tesla fan, but they had better not be a-holes about it either when it comes to the warranty or they will be taken to court and they will lose. It's pretty well established law by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. If they want to sell with the big boys they need to act like one (in many ways).

 

[McRat]

All probably true. Heat buildup in aircraft tires happens primarily on landing, and the bounces are indeed factors, not minimal. Road hazards can Destry tires and wheels but lesser bumps tend to cause some leakage. Indeed air is majority nitrogen, but the remainder can be problematical not least because nitrogen is inert, oxygen and other air components are not.

I completely agree that paying for nitrogen at any appreciable level is a waste. Most GA airplane shops tend to do it for free, especially if they like the car.

IIRC, nitrogen is used on aircraft because oxygen and water are corrosive, especially to magnesium. Most air compressors produce N2, O2, and H2O. H2O increases the rate of pressure gain with temp. Water stays in the tire and accumulates. A tire that has been refilled many times can have quite a bit of water in it.

For cars, dry 'air' is preferred, be it pure N2 or dried air (a good compressed air system removes the water).

If you want dry air for home use, there are many choices in line dryers. You attach it after the compressor. You still need to drain the tank, unless it's an 'all in one' air system which first feeds the air into the dryer, then stores it in the tank. The tank normally stays dry, but check it once a year.

 

[RobertFF]

jbcarioca said: ↑
Yes. BTW, I use nitrogen in my BMW in Brazil and in my S. A major advantage in bad roads is that is it less likely to lose pressure when subjected to road hazards. That is why aircraft use nitrogen; landing does produce sharp impacts. BTW, it's due to the larger nitrogen molecule than that of the oxygen component in air.

I was a Navy fighter pilot. We used nitrogen in our tires to reduce the chance of fires with blown tires. Don't know if molecule size, etc, have anything to do with nitrogen use.