Model S catches fire in France-8/2016

[Yggdrasill]

That is the first Tesla fire (not from a collision) story I can recall hearing about in over two years, with the single exception of the Model S charging at a Supercharger in Norway that caught on fire (did Tesla every release an explanation of that incident?).

They never figures out the exact fault, but they were able to determine that there was a fault in the high voltage junction box that caused the fire. (Just like we were able to deduce here on the forum, I might add.)

When it comes to this fire, my money is on road debris. The extent and intensity of the fire reminds me of the video of the first Tesla fire, though probably a few minutes later.

 

[deonb]

Funny! Fun with silly math and stats!
The above comparison that the multi billion dollar corp rationalized is only relevant if they are comparing new car fires to the Tesla new car fires.

The average age of a car on the road is 11 years.
This was a new car, so it is 11 times younger.
So you aren't 5 times safer, you are less safe on a per mile/per month basis.

How do you know that the average of ICE cars on the road that catch on fire isn't 2 weeks old? If you have statistics to say otherwise, please back that up. Otherwise it's meaningless to compare car age.

 

[NikeWings]

I heard it was a fire sale.

Do you think Tesla does anything special for test drivers that incur incidents?

 

[krazineurons]

What part of Tesla bodies are inflammable? Isn't it mostly aluminium on the structure? Or it is the battery that causes all the fire reaching to temperatures eventually making the structure burn as well?

 

[Yggdrasill]

What part of Tesla bodies are inflammable? Isn't it mostly aluminium on the structure? Or it is the battery that causes all the fire reaching to temperatures eventually making the structure burn as well?

The parts that don't burn are the steel bumpers, steel B-columns, and a few other parts.

The battery is well insulated from the rest of the car using aerofoam, so it can survive a fire where the battery hasn't been involved in starting the fire. In the fire in Norway, it burned itself out pretty fast, so I don't think the battery was involved, and the tires/rims will burn, but didn't. (The rims are pretty massive chunks of aluminium, so you need a lot of heat to get them to burn.)

 

[Jin Kazama]

I'm not sure it's a problem with road debris this time. They talk (in French) about a possible single cell failure (the loud noise) propagating to the other cells... It might be some kind of rare catastrophic cell failure, given the number of cells in such a car and the number of teslas on the markets I'd say it insignificant...

In the other hand, it's a good reminder of why the other EV manufacturers decided to go with lower capacity, larger, heavier cells. I've never heard of such a problem with EVs such as the nissan leaf or the renault zoe (which sells by truckloads here) (don't tell me the cars are not comparable, they are EVs...). (I specifically remember someone deliberately punctuating a leaf battery pouch trying & failing to set it on fire (they way you put lipo batteries on fire)).

 

[Yggdrasill]

I'm not sure it's a problem with road debris this time. They talk (in French) about a possible single cell failure (the loud noise) propagating to the other cells... It might be some kind of rare catastrophic cell failure, given the number of cells in such a car and the number of teslas on the markets I'd say it insignificant...

The pack is designed such that a cell failure won't propagate.

If it wasn't road debris, my guess would be a short in the DC/DC converter. A short could make the main contactors break the current, which is known to be described as a pop or bang by those who experience it. And a fault there could engulf the front of the car in flames fairly quickly.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Comment from Reddit:

"go long on fire extinguishers and short tesla"

 

[3Victoria]

Lots of EV fires: Plug-in electric vehicle fire incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cobbler]

The message that was shown 'charging error' while driving should provide some diagnostic feedback for Tesla to determine the area where the cause is.
Just wondering: doesn't the car immediately upload diagnostic alarms over the GPRS network to Tesla?

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ You don't hear a lot about $100k new ICE cars that are on fire /...

It happens.

http://jalopnik.com/dick-van-dykes-jag-burns-on-an-la-freeway-but-hes-okay-1169145256

And it probably happens a lot. But since it's not a Tesla or owned by Dick van Dyke, it's not considered news. There may also be an element of self-censorship – who wants to upset a really big source of advertisement money/bite the hand that feeds you the most?

 

[Yggdrasill]

If it had been a fossil car that had caught fire and not a Tesla, there might have been a small note in the local newspaper like "A car caught fire at 1 pm on road X, firefighters arrived quickly and at 3 pm the road was reopened. No one was harmed." I've seen that hundreds of times.

A couple of examples in Norwegian from the last 24 hours:

Rykket ut til bilbrann på Tunejordet
Bilbrann på E18 i Lillesand

 

[Electroman]

How do you know that the average of ICE cars on the road that catch on fire isn't 2 weeks old? If you have statistics to say otherwise, please back that up. Otherwise it's meaningless to compare car age.

Please don't feed the vultures. To maintain healthy discussions around the cause and the impact of this incident, we need to stay away and ignore a few folks. Otherwise this will disintegrate into yet another, Tesla is making killing machines and Eloon is a conman .

 

[deonb]

Please don't feed the vultures. To maintain healthy discussions around the cause and the impact of this incident, we need to stay away and ignore a few folks.

I miss the heavy handed mods.

 

[scaesare]

The pack is designed such that a cell failure won't propagate.

I'm not sure this is true. The cells are individually fused so an overloaded cell will be protected to avoid runaway, and the pack has features to help prevent runaway from occurring.. or doing so too quickly.

But I don't know of anything that would prevent a defective (or otherwise compromised) cell that ended up in flames from spreading to the adjacent cells in the module. They are all packed together, and once you get 444 cells on one module burning, the others will go as well, albeit the dividers in the pack may slow that avalanche some.

Tesla does have a patent for using an intumescent coating on individual that would act as a fire retardant, but it appears to not be in use within the current packs (or at least the earlier ones torn down and examined).

If it wasn't road debris, my guess would be a short in the DC/DC converter. A short could make the main contactors break the current, which is known to be described as a pop or bang by those who experience it. And a fault there could engulf the front of the car in flames fairly quickly.

This would be interesting. The one known pack puncture actually did so on the front face of the pack (I.e. on the side of the "hump" at the front of the pack), and not through the ballistic armor bottom plate. Subsequently cars are built with protection to avoid that same accident... similar to the titanium retrofit made available to existing cars.

The other mechanically-induced fires have been accidents severe enough to compromise the integrity of the pack.. .in one case actually ripping the car in half.

If this was a case of debris, I'd be interested in understanding how/where it would have managed to puncture the pack.

I suspect electrical fault is more likely... contactor failure within the pack, or HVJB short of some sort, as apparently was the case with the Norwegian car fire...

 

[Yggdrasill]

I'm not sure this is true. The cells are individually fused so an overloaded cell will be protected to avoid runaway, and the pack has features to help prevent runaway from occurring.. or doing so too quickly.

But I don't know of anything that would prevent a defective (or otherwise compromised) cell that ended up in flames from spreading to the adjacent cells in the module. They are all packed together, and once you get 444 cells on one module burning, the others will go as well, albeit the dividers in the pack may slow that avalanche some.

My understanding is that a single cell failure doesn't generate sufficient heat to set off the adjacent cells. I'm sure Tesla has done all the necessary calculations and testing to ensure this is the case. You need several cells to go off at the same time, or that the pack is deformed or punctured.

Also, it's fairly unlikely that a fire inside an intact pack module would have sufficient intensity to affect the rest of the car in any appreciable way very fast. It would take a lot of time. Now, maybe the picture in the article was taken after 30-60 minutes, but I doubt it.

I suspect electrical fault is more likely... contactor failure within the pack, or HVJB short of some sort, as apparently was the case with the Norwegian car fire...

HVJB can be ruled out, as well as the rear DU and charger. This is all at the rear of the car and the fire was at the front of the car.

If we're not talking about debris, but an electrical fault, the likely culprits are the front DU, DC/DC converter, and 12V system. All these aren't contained in the fire-resistant metal box that is the battery pack, and they are at the front of the car.

 

[habanero69]

My question would be, how many, if any, unattended fires have there been with Tesla cars. In other words, sitting in a garage on OR off the charger, how many fires have been reported?

That said, what do owners do in their garages above and beyond what they would do with ICE vehicles stored? I currently have a CO monitor and a batt operated smoke detector in my garage. Whether or not I will hear it if it goes off in my bedroom half way across the house is another question. Is there a reasonably priced IOT device that could be deployed in the garage for such monitoring purposes? That would assume, I guess, no loss of power/internet for that to really be effective... Suggestions?

M

 

[ecarfan]

I currently have a CO monitor and a batt operated smoke detector in my garage. Whether or not I will hear it if it goes off in my bedroom half way across the house is another question. Is there a reasonably priced IOT device that could be deployed in the garage for such monitoring purposes?

Get a Nest smoke detector. It will alert you via the phone app. Keep you phone by your bed with the volume turned up enough to wake you up.

 

[Yggdrasill]

My question would be, how many, if any, unattended fires have there been with Tesla cars. In other words, sitting in a garage on OR off the charger, how many fires have been reported?

One. The fire in Norway. There have also been some near accidents, with incorrectly fitted adapters to the UMC, and some faulty wiring in peoples homes, used for charging. But only one actual fire.

That said, what do owners do in their garages above and beyond what they would do with ICE vehicles stored? I currently have a CO monitor and a batt operated smoke detector in my garage. Whether or not I will hear it if it goes off in my bedroom half way across the house is another question. Is there a reasonably priced IOT device that could be deployed in the garage for such monitoring purposes? That would assume, I guess, no loss of power/internet for that to really be effective... Suggestions?

I personally have five optical smoke detectors that are linked in my home. If one goes off, they all go off. I don't have one in my garage, though. Just in two adjacent rooms. (In my experience, fire detectors don't like freezing temperatures, and in the middle of winter, the temperature will likely be freezing inside the garage.)

 

[Yggdrasill]

One. The fire in Norway. There have also been some near accidents, with incorrectly fitted adapters to the UMC, and some faulty wiring in peoples homes, used for charging. But only one actual fire.

No wait, there was another actual fire in Sweden. But I don't think the car was to blame.