Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

[mnx]

They used to say sigs would have "extensive leather throughout"... I wonder when that disappeared.

The concerns over delivery order are only unique to the forums, as people who don't hang out here on a daily basis have no idea what cars are being delivered now or if they are being delivered out of order.

And I would guess that most of you will totally forget about this quickly upon getting your car.

On another note, it would be wise of Tesla to produce Canadian sigs before US P's to help make sure that no US P's are being delivered before US sigs... (Might have duped myself into keeping my sig reservation if I had thought of that a few weeks ago).

Hmm, it's been years, so I deduced to look for my confirmation email as well. Here's what it said about the number:



So, nothing definitive, though it certainly implies a position in line. Also found an old email discussing sigs:



I think the only features we ended up with is the paint and white interior.

 

[Zythryn]

I agree with you, up to the "unfair" part...

I appologize, I wasn't clear. I agree with what you said. When I said "unfair", I meant unfair in a perfect world type of unfair. For example, in a perfect world, every Model S would come of the line in perfect shape, not need to be checked by quality assurance, and be magically transported to the purchaser in order of reservation on the day it is complete at the plant.

No one expects that and I do think most will be reasonable. Tesla could help their situation, IMO, with better communication. A blog entry from George would go a long way.

 

[ckessel]

Your wording implies that P5800 is being delivered before Sig 44 . That seems a little disingenuous.

Whats the worst 'out of order' example we know?

It was just an example of something that'd clearly be out of bounds, not something that's happened. The point was just to show a line exists even if it's subjectively measured by each individual. I thought I'd picked an absurd enough number that'd be clear, but I guess not

(maybe the fact it wasn't absurd enough is telling...)

Delivery dates look to be several hundred out of order (Sig 1000+ got a call with a date as I recall, but some Sigs <500 haven't even been called). For me, that'd be beyond the point of what's reasonable. I'll stress though, since it was lost in your quote and I don't want the point to be lost, that I think the problem is in Tesla's communication about batching rather than the batching strategy itself.

What's the saying, something like "sunshine is the best disinfectant" ?

 

[NigelM]

I appologize, I wasn't clear. I agree with what you said.When I said "unfair", I meant unfair in a perfect world type of unfair.

No apology necessary. Yup, wouldn't it be cool if we got deliveries via transporter beam. :smile:

 

[Robert.Boston]

I'm guessing that what is happening is that the manager responsible for batching puts together a group of similar low-sequence cars (I'll not try to speculate on what "similar" might mean), but if this isn't big enough for a full batch, then she reaches down into the queue to find another "similar" car to complete the batch. This seems to be consistent with what we're seeing: there have only been isolated reports of high-numbered Sigs getting firm delivery dates, so perhaps these were the "fill out the batch" cars.

This seems like the only plausible way to run a production line. It results in most of the cars being delivered in approximate sequence order, but with a few outliers (both fast and slow). I hope that Tesla is working to minimize the delays in getting the low numbered cars out the door. It's clear, though, that Tesla needs to be doing a better job communicating with customers.

 

[AnOutsider]

Does anyone see a point in a Sig X now?

Not really and I'm just waiting for some more final word on the S sigs before deciding to drop it or not. On the one hand I think: maybe they'll have their **** together by then... But history says otherwise

 

[rogbmw]

One thing that might help is if Tesla would institute a site where one could track their car. If this is present now, then I do not know of it. During my most recent BMW purchase I was able to track the following if I remember correctly:

1. When the order was placed - using the number assigned to my dealer when I ordered the car.
2. When I was assigned a production number and VIN
3. When the order was processed for production
4. When production had started
5. When production had finished
6. When the car was ready for shipping
7. When the car was shipped (and what ship it was on from Germany)
8. When the car arrived at the US Processing Center
9. When the car was shipped from the US Processing center

Just a suggestion....:biggrin:

 

[AnOutsider]

One thing that might help is if Tesla would institute a site where one could track their car. If this is present now, then I do not know of it. During my most recent BMW purchase I was able to track the following if I remember correctly:

1. When the order was placed - using the number assigned to my dealer when I ordered the car.
2. When I was assigned a production number and VIN
3. When the order was processed for production
4. When production had started
5. When production had finished
6. When the car was ready for shipping
7. When the car was shipped (and what ship it was on from Germany)
8. When the car arrived at the US Processing Center
9. When the car was shipped from the US Processing center

Just a suggestion....:biggrin:

I believe something like this was spoke of, but nada yet. Probably come into play middle of next year when things are settling down.

 

[ElSupreme]

They used to say sigs would have "extensive leather throughout"... I wonder when that disappeared.

It's still there: (Normal, Performance, Sig, Sig Performance are the columns)

 

[mnx]

Thanks, couldn't find it. Looks like the perf gets it as well (so no advantage there for a perf to upgrade to sig perf)

It's still there: (Normal, Performance, Sig, Sig Performance are the columns)

 

[brianman]

Thanks, couldn't find it. Looks like the perf gets it as well (so no advantage for a perf to upgrade to sig perf)

Technically you "lose" Perforated when you go from Sig to Sig Performance. I've never been clear on whether that's a bad thing or not.

 

[Arnold Panz]

Not really and I'm just waiting for some more final word on the S sigs before deciding to drop it or not. On the one hand I think: maybe they'll have their **** together by then... But history says otherwise

No way I order a Sig for the Model X, based on my experience with the S. I got much fewer choices, not only on exterior colors, but certain options that I didn't want/need, and paid a bunch extra for the privilege! My only advantage was a theoretical early delivery, but that's been mostly obviated by the S curve ramp up and out of order batching in production.

I get why it works for Tesla -- 1000 suckers to pay an extra $7500-$10,000 to be guinea pigs equals the easiest additional $7+million in revenue they'll ever make, but I've definitely learned my lesson! Assuming I evetually order an X for my wife, it'll be general production for sure.

 

[Sparrow]

I've wondered about the lose of perforated leather too and i don't know that i ever saw anyone really talk about the pluses and minuses of the 2 configuartions so I stuck with the performance leather treatment.

I also agree, that I would not go for a Signature vehicle again either, there just aren't any tangible benefits to getting a Signature. I will say that some people, those that didn't even make a reservation until late last year, probably saved 6 months or more in their delivery timeframe by paying the Signature premium, but the people who got on the reservation list really early would have lost maybe a month or so by going to the production list instead. I would have loved to have saved the extra $7000 or more and gotten a green performance S with an early reservation.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

About the Sig deposits placed in late March, 2009, I had mentioned it before, I think; if you had put those $40,000 in AAPL instead at that time (at ~$110 a share), you'd have made over a quarter million dollars as of today!

 

[Charged_Up]

I get why it works for Tesla -- 1000 suckers to pay an extra $7500-$10,000 to be guinea pigs equals the easiest additional $7+million in revenue they'll ever make, but I've definitely learned my lesson! Assuming I evetually order an X for my wife, it'll be general production for sure.

And that's pretty much the point I have been trying to get across - that when just one Sig owner uses the word "sucker" - Tesla has lost goodwill from some of its earliest and best evangelists. I have a model x reservation in addition to my model s sig reservation - no way I would even think about upgrading at this point.

 

[Jkam]

No way I order a Sig for the Model X, based on my experience with the S. I got much fewer choices, not only on exterior colors, but certain options that I didn't want/need, and paid a bunch extra for the privilege! My only advantage was a theoretical early delivery, but that's been mostly obviated by the S curve ramp up and out of order batching in production.

I get why it works for Tesla -- 1000 suckers to pay an extra $7500-$10,000 to be guinea pigs equals the easiest additional $7+million in revenue they'll ever make, but I've definitely learned my lesson! Assuming I evetually order an X for my wife, it'll be general production for sure.

When you put it that way, Tesla has done a masterful job. Not only did they get the $7+ million in revenue, but the cash flow and possible interest savings from not having to borrow $40 million due to the deposits.

If you measure it another way, they couldn't sell out 200 Canadian Sigs, it was only around December 2011/January 2012 that Tesla sold out the US Sigs, they had somewhere near 25% cancellations of original US Sig orders, you could still get a Sig even just a couple months ago and they have created a lot of ill will from some long time Sig holders. You have to wonder really how successful it was.

In terms of bottom line dollars, the program was a success. In other terms I'd have to say it was a dud.

 

[Beaker]

Technically you "lose" Perforated when you go from Sig to Sig Performance. I've never been clear on whether that's a bad thing or not.

It was a good thing for me, the wife did not want the kids spilling through the perforated seats, which was final straw in selecting performance.

 

[Arnold Panz]

When you put it that way, Tesla has done a masterful job. Not only did they get the $7+ million in revenue, but the cash flow and possible interest savings from not having to borrow $40 million due to the deposits.

If you measure it another way, they couldn't sell out 200 Canadian Sigs, it was only around December 2011/January 2012 that Tesla sold out the US Sigs, they had somewhere near 25% cancellations of original US Sig orders, you could still get a Sig even just a couple months ago and they have created a lot of ill will from some long time Sig holders. You have to wonder really how successful it was.

In terms of bottom line dollars, the program was a success. In other terms I'd have to say it was a dud.

I think if you asked Tesla they'd be happy with how things worked out, and for the Johnny-come-latelys who got to jump the line at the end by several months, it was a pretty fair deal. Do I wish someone at Tesla had whispered in my ear that there'd be very little time advantage, no enhancements in the car, and a huge extra cost, to upgrading to Sig? Absolutely. But now X reservation holders know the deal and can act accordingly, and I'd guess that employees didn't know any of this at the time.

In other words, I didn't mean to imply that all were suckers, just me! :redface::frown:

 

[Doug_G]

If you measure it another way, they couldn't sell out 200 Canadian Sigs,

Two comments:

1. They're almost sold out of Canadian Sigs. S + SSL = 186 at last tally.
2. They provided twice as many Sigs per capita for Canada than for the USA. So from that perspective the sales here were very successful.

 

[Tommy]

In other words, I didn't mean to imply that all were suckers, just me! :redface::frown:

I don't see you as a "sucker", rather as someone who wanted the S this year and didn't want to take a chance on a 2013 delivery. I base this observation on the information found in the Model S Reservation Tally thread on Tesla's forum that @michiganmodels has been updating and tracking as reservation #s are posted to that forum. From the tally, it appears your reservation was made in May 2011 and at that time already over 3,900 regular production USA reservations had been reported. With Tesla stating that the production run would be 5,000 S for 2012, reserving a regular production at that time one could logically deduce that delivery would not take place until 2013 (1,200 sigs +260R + 3,900P).

Of course in hindsight, we know that people have deferred, dropped, upgraded and cancelled and a P3900+ reservation may still occur this year, albeit very late in the year. I think you are on track to receive the S about two months before you would have with a P reservation and definitely a 2012 delivery; whereas the delivery may have not occurred until 2013 with a P3900+ #. The downside to a 2013 delivery as you know, at a minimum means waiting a tax year to receive the EV credit and if your tax situation is such, having to alter your tax liability from 2012 to 2013 to gain the EV credit. A much more difficult task to do as we near the end of this tax year.

So in summery, you're not a "sucker", I think you may a wise decision and will own a limited production car that in my view is "priceless".