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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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- Model S Tesla Inc.
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henderrj
Active Member
Is there any argument to be made for a HUD in a fully automated driving car? A level 5 car. I'm not really familiar with the state of the technology. Could one watch movies, sell time in advertisements, let Google into the car?!
Not sure I would cancel an order due to potential $ hit, is it too late to ask them to delay it? I assume we would get an announcement of S update when one of these occurs:
1) model-s/x supercharging referral deal is over on Jan 31.
2) model-3 AWD is available to order
3) Just after Q1 results are released.
1) model-s/x supercharging referral deal is over on Jan 31.
2) model-3 AWD is available to order
3) Just after Q1 results are released.
Well, first of all, no Tesla really is a Level 5 car yet. We know Tesla claims AP2 is Level 5 capable and you can Summon the car from coast to coast, but if/when will this be an actual reality?
On the other hand, Audi's Level 5 prototype Aicon has a near full windshield HUD. E.g. for video calls. It does not even have a steering wheel:
Anyway, here is my Tesla HUD speculation and reasoning:
The HUD Case - Mockup of what could be
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Nope.
I care more about fellow TMC members making good and educated purchasing decisions than I care about Tesla making current quarter sales numbers based on not telling us about future changes. Nothing FUD about caring of the fellow members, quite the contrary.
It is my rumor analysis that is more often the recipient of FUD by people who have some reason for not wanting such speculation posted. The speculation itself actually has a fairly good track-record.
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In same boat. But dealing with phase-out of $7500US government subsidy after Tesla hits 200K units sold in US. Will likely kick in sometime this spring/summer, so clock is ticking.
Other factor for us in Model 3. Wife has one, and we love it. Have ability to configure/order on a second M3 reservation as soon as AWD is released. As California existing-owner line-waiters, that would probably get us in under the subsidy deadline.
Right now we have M3. "310" mile range which, based on US EPA testing and our own driving, is probably close to the "335" mile range on an S100D. However, the M3 is not a cargo beast nor an AWD snow car.
And, we have a 2015 S85D which ticks the cargo and AWD boxes but lags on range. "270" (now 265) miles ... and that's a way more optimistic number than the Model 3's "310". In the face of mountain cold, snow, and uphills (2000m elevation gains) ... and warm-weather bike rack drag, range is definitely a constraint.
Interesting decisions ahead. Would love to see an MS upgrade this spring. Even an interior refresh to M3-plus levels (on small things such as screen quality, door pockets, etc.) would make me more comfortable buying a 100D. And, if Santa Elon's release also included a 110D, perhaps with enhanced Supercharging, the decision would become easier.
If not, the AWD Model 3 at $60K begins to look mighty attractive.
Other people's thoughts?
techie
Member
Seeing the M3 (single motor!) over perform in a huge way on 0-60, 4.66s instead of 5.1s - 5.6s as advertised by Tesla makes the case for an upgrade of MS even more urgent IMHO. With the M3 being lighter handling also seems better judging from various reviews.
The recent "uncorking" of the MS starts to make a lot of sense...
The recent "uncorking" of the MS starts to make a lot of sense...
My early experience with the Model 3 suggests that it handles better than any other car which I've owned (Toyota Supra, Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4, BMW 330xi, Audi S4, Audi S5 ... and even Tesla Model S85D).
Makes sense. Unlike Tesla's under-sell tried to mislead us, Model 3 really is the next-gen Tesla, the next version in pretty much every way from new battery cell (likely to have significant benefits, so far not very well reported), new interior comforts and storage, new computer and speed, new motor, new vent system, new interior camera... I wouldn't be surprised if in addition to the interior camera it would also have other hidden features that will be activated later...
Model S/X are old now. The rumored interior and battery upgrades should take care of great many things, though, when they come.
We have no information about the battery. They could die quickly. New doesn't always mean better.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Per the original reservation verbiage, we can each defer 1 time for 6 months.
After that, Elon tweeted that reservation holders could defer indefinitely,
I imagine that they’ll just slot deferred reservation holders into the queue on demand.
I’ve deferred until AWD which I figure is at least a half-year away. Using that half year to find an CPO AP1 RWD S85, unless AP2 is improved to exceed AP1, in which case I’ll keep the AP2 car. Fallback is a Model 3.
None of these I view as keepers but instead as bridge car options to get through the next 3 years. In 2021, the choices should be much better.
So if your first choice is a Model 3, especially if you plan to lease, and you can get by without AWD, there’s not all that much reason to wait. Solid 3 year bridge car
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Why would the next battery necessarily have significant benefits (other than cost)? What we know is that the current S/X batteries age very well, and much better than those of Leaf/Zoé etc. In any event I don't see a compelling reason (other than perhaps cost) for Tesla to change in the near future, and even less for us to wait for a 2170 battery in S/X.
I also don't agree Model S/X are old. Model X is barely two years old. As to the Model S, I can't really imagine how you could improve much on its quite timeless exterior design. The interior doesn't need an overhaul either imo (I can imagine some "nice to have" things being added, like a ski trap/middle armrest for the back seats, some storage space in the doors (how difficult can that be) or even -tadaaa- a couple of free coat hooks
) but otherwise I think, as always, progress will be incremental and behind the scenes (faster UI, adding some more redundancy, higher definition screens, etc.). Is your two-year old MX so "old" that you would today buy something different? What exactly would you buy that is "less old"? A PowerPoint presentation?The VW Beetle was produced for around 70 years, with only incremental changes. Even the Peugeot 504 (I just coincidentally read yesterday) was produced for more than 35 years, without one single major change. Good designs don't get old after two, four, or six years. And that's probably also true for what may be the next "Beetle", i.e. the Tesla M3
While I acknowledge 2170s could of course be a failure similar to the 90 kWh pack, I think it is more likely everything Tesla and their battery partners at Panasonic has learned has been poured into this second try. I expect faster charging, faster performance potential, better packing potential (larger packs) and other such possibilities. I don't know they are there, but I do find them plausible - and IMO much more likely than "only thing that's better is cost". That's IMO not how advancements usually work. Over time things become cheaper and better.
Model Xs interior comes from Model S, though, which is now six years old - well into the total model refresh age for a car. Model Ss exterior, too of course. I agree Model X's exterior is not old yet, but given we're mostly talking interior refresh, that doesn't really matter that much...
The interior doesn't need an overhaul either imo (I can imagine some "nice to have" things being added, like a ski trap/middle armrest for the back seats, some storage space in the doors (how difficult can that be) or even -tadaaa- a couple of free coat hooks
I don't know if the interior needs an overhaul, but I do expect it will get it. That is part of why the current one feels old, it will be replaced soon. Or has been already, with the Model 3 interior. And, well, it is a bit old.
Also, AR HUD.
That's a good question. I think for me the Model X wait (reservation in 2014, delivery in 2017) was coming to the stage of take it or leave it when I ordered. I took the chance on one more wait by forgoing the AP1 and taking the AP2. I was and am very happy with the car in the end, as purchased in early 2017. Would I buy the same car today? No, of course not. Tesla has discontinued so many things that matter to me (adaptive spoiler, ventilated seats, Helix wheels, Alcantara dash?) and there is nothing to replace them yet, AP 2.5 doesn't really excite. And I can't help the feeling that a major refresh is coming soon. It was a good buy in early 2017 and I'll enjoy it for quite some time. Today, I'd wait for interior refresh and/or new battery...
If not a Model S/X? What then. Well, Model 3 would be more modern in some ways, but of course not available here. I guess I would simply wait for all the options to unfold, Jaguar, Audi, Tesla etc. Or perhaps buy that new Audi A8 with comforts for one last ICE. But not now, I like the Model X. A bit smaller second car, that may be a different story...
I'm actually happy I don't have to buy anything today. The choices seem less than optimal IMO. Tesla choices will be significantly better if/when the interior refresh and new battery hit, though.
And so will be the BEV choices from the competition...
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You didn't. It was my implication and was not meant as funny.
It was meant to acknowledge a historical weakness in my "bull" expectations on 2170s. 90 kWh was newer, but turns out, it was not better.
I'm actually more positive about the 2170s than some highly pro-Tesla people here. Go figure.
There are a few things I'm expecting from a Model S/X update:
- New chargeport design (at least in Europe!) with CCS. After seeing the updated chargeport in China: Tesla unveils new dual connector charge port design for Model S and Model X
- New MCU with Intel CPU just like they use for Model 3
- Bigger battery
- Keyless entry just like Model 3 using Bluetooth
Yes, they will work on the exterior and interior, but buying a Model S without the features above would feel like buying a outdated vehicle.
Buying a EV in Europe without CCS doesn't seem very future-proof to me. I want to use the SuperCharger network AND the growing CCS network WITHOUT adapters.
- New chargeport design (at least in Europe!) with CCS. After seeing the updated chargeport in China: Tesla unveils new dual connector charge port design for Model S and Model X
- New MCU with Intel CPU just like they use for Model 3
- Bigger battery
- Keyless entry just like Model 3 using Bluetooth
Yes, they will work on the exterior and interior, but buying a Model S without the features above would feel like buying a outdated vehicle.
Buying a EV in Europe without CCS doesn't seem very future-proof to me. I want to use the SuperCharger network AND the growing CCS network WITHOUT adapters.
I wouldn't mind an adapter, but it has to be said: No CCS adapters exist yet, so there is concern will they ever come available... Adding CCS by Tesla would be very good in Europe.
p.s. You forgot the interior camera and the AR HUD.
Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD- Status