The HUD Case - Mockup of what could be

[AnxietyRanger]

So, there's a rumor that Model S/X might get a redesigned interior around Q2-Q3/2018 - and of course there is the instrument clusterless dash of Model 3 perhaps giving us a glimpse into Tesla's future ideas. There is also the speculation and some past rumor on the 1/2 or 2/3rd windshield HUD. And Elon's tweets about spaceship controls...

I thought I'd make just a quick mockup of what the really big deal about such a speculated augmented reality HUD would be. I am hoping this single image with just three mockup elements superimposed - navigation guide, pedestrian warning and speed - illustrate the power of this idea.

I also checked separately (something that this mockup's angle does not make clear) that from a driver's perspective, the HUD really doesn't have to cover the whole windshield to cover the road ahead. 1/2 or 2/3rd horizontally would seem to suffice, given that the driver does not sit at the center...

This was previously discussed also: The HUD question - Will e.g. Panasonic's AR HUD replace Tesla IC?

Thank you for the base of the illustration: SlashGear

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla hired a number of high profile AR designers, and it didn't show up in the Model 3 (yet) so there's a wonder when that talent will be seen publicly, and that "spaceship" comment makes absolutely no sense in the context of delivered Model 3 cars so far.

I actually started to expect this when the Model 3 had an interior camera... all of the hypotheses about it being a nag-replacement make sense, but it might also be useful as a head position sensor if they need to focus an AR HUD in front of the driver.

Here's hoping. That would make an awesome early-adopter upgrade gift for the promised Model 3 'founders' purchases too.

***edit*** We should also note that the Roadster had no IC either, just the center screen... which seemed like insanity to me on a car that should deliver information to the driver at 250+ mph without making them look down and sideways! AR in that situation would be the perfect performance solution, and is honestly the only reason I can imagine a Roadster would lack driver-visible instrumentation.

 

[whitex]

I thought I'd make just a quick mockup of what the really big deal about such a speculated augmented reality HUD would be. I am hoping this single image with just three mockup elements superimposed - navigation guide, pedestrian warning and speed - illustrate the power of this idea.
View attachment 267636

Except that your mockup is physically impossible, unless of course you are saying that Tesla is going to replace the entire windshield with a large screen instead on which you will see what a camera sees. Use some dry erase markers to mock it up on your own car screen, then move your head around a little and you'll see what I mean (or even look through each eye separately). HUDs can display information like a computer screen, but they cannot overlay that information onto what you see through the windshield, unless the system does real time tracking of the head AND project independent images directly into each eye. The military HUD's used for target aiding are actually fixed to the helmet (hence fixed to the head) and usually over one eye only.

Sorry to disappoint you, but even Elon has to follow the laws of physics.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Except that your mockup is physically impossible, unless of course you are saying that Tesla is going to replace the entire windshield with a large screen instead on which you will see what a camera sees. Use some dry erase markers to mock it up on your own car screen, then move your head around a little and you'll see what I mean (or even look through each eye separately). HUDs can display information like a computer screen, but they cannot overlay that information onto what you see through the windshield, unless the system does real time tracking of the head AND project independent images directly into each eye. The military HUD's used for target aiding are actually fixed to the helmet (hence fixed to the head) and usually over one eye only.

Sorry to disappoint you, but even Elon has to follow the laws of physics.

@whitex Yes, indeed my concept of course relies on exactly that. Not on eye-separation necessarily, I think that could be solved otherwise.

That's why the interior camera is there.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is not something that's new:

The HUD question - Will e.g. Panasonic's AR HUD replace Tesla IC?

 

[mongo]

Not saying they can't do it, but here are some issues from previous generation systems.

If the system relies on windshield reflection, there is an issue with the dual reflections caused by the front and rear surfaces of the glass. Akin to ghosting, vehicles with HUDs have a specific wedge angle designed into the area the HUD projects onto. This issue would be worse with a off center image (lower incidence angle). There is also an issue with polarization of the reflected light and sunglasses.
The light engine for even a small HUD is a power hog, a daylight visible system over a significant portion of the windshield usable with sunglasses may eliminate the need for a cabin heater .

I believe the Roadster had additional data readouts in the top edge of the dash area.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I believe the Roadster had additional data readouts in the top edge of the dash area.

It does. Though of course that could simply be for the prototype/concept car.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Continental has a pretty nice write-up on this:

AR HUD - Continental Head-up Display

Though of course the Tesla rumor is more about Panasonic.

 

[whitex]

Continental has a pretty nice write-up on this:

AR HUD - Continental Head-up Display

Though of course the Tesla rumor is more about Panasonic.

Neh, I'm sure Elon has some better idea how to do it cheaper, like using ultrasonics for blind spot monitoring or cameras instead of rain sensor. On the other hand, who needs a HUD when you have FSD which you already buy on new Teslas today - the HUD doesn't work from the back seat anyways.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Who needs HUD in a taxi certainly is a compelling argument.

Until one considers the movie-displaying potential...

 

[whitex]

Who needs HUD in a taxi certainly is a compelling argument.

Until one considers the movie-displaying potential...

Faded/transparent movie image on the windshield is probably worse than a display on the back of front headrest.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Faded/transparent movie image on the windshield is probably worse than a display on the back of front headrest.

Well, I wasn't totally serious about that point.

But FWIW Mercedes Benz did do a fairly opaque full-windshield HUD demo some years ago. (For night vision.)

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Except that your mockup is physically impossible, unless of course you are saying that Tesla is going to replace the entire windshield with a large screen instead on which you will see what a camera sees. Use some dry erase markers to mock it up on your own car screen, then move your head around a little and you'll see what I mean (or even look through each eye separately). HUDs can display information like a computer screen, but they cannot overlay that information onto what you see through the windshield, unless the system does real time tracking of the head AND project independent images directly into each eye. The military HUD's used for target aiding are actually fixed to the helmet (hence fixed to the head) and usually over one eye only.

Sorry to disappoint you, but even Elon has to follow the laws of physics.

I wouldn't say it's impossible, it'd just require head tracking and some smart geometry. If you know where the eyes are in 3d space and you know where the object is in 3d space, you can produce a vector from the eyes to the object and find the intersection on the windshield. Produce a bounding box large enough to fit the object for both eyes and you're good. A path and speed as shown in the image are even easier, as the parallax isn't large enough to impact the information being displayed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

A little bit on the Panasonic augmented reality HUD, of which there is the rumor or their desire of them working with Tesla:

Next Generation Augmented Reality HUD Demo Car | Panasonic Automotive Systems Europe

Panasonic’s Next-Generation Augmented Reality HUD demo car can project large images in distances up to 10m and allows drivers to keep their eyes on the road and stay informed. The system is self adjusting to the drivers viewpoint and augments the outside view with information from a camera system.

The HUD is replacing the Instrument cluster. The HUD will display all information that was shown on the original cluster.

The Cameras, HUD, Object recognition, Head tracking system is all run on a single computer platform.

The demo they've done with the Twizy of course includes a much smaller HUD than speculated here, but the basic ideas are there.

 

[bob_p]

If Musk really believes they'll start rolling out FSD in 2 years - seems unlikely they would invest in adding HUD to their cars.

Tesla's goals are to have the cars do the driving - which would place a higher priority at that point in giving the "driver" something else to do than monitoring the car's operation.

The Model 3 could be viewed as the first step away from providing a dashboard. When the car runs under FSD, the entire display could be used for a movie - and not for showing the current vehicle status (speed, AP, ...).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If Musk really believes they'll start rolling out FSD in 2 years - seems unlikely they would invest in adding HUD to their cars.

Then again, an AR HUD would be the perfect companion for the visual identification etc. AP2 will eventually be able to do. It would also fit Tesla's "wow" design ethos and software-upgradeable platform thinking (ship HW early, finish SW later)...

Even with FSD I could see a HUD having its uses.

Who knows. We shall see.

 

[mongo]

Seems easier to create an augmented view on a dedicated display, assuming camera coverage is better than normal sight lines.

I do like my wife's car's HUD for speed checking, seems even more useful with Tesla since I can't judge speed based on engine RPM.

 

[jjh1234]

***AR****

 

[lunitiks]

Swap «you» with «we»,
And «dead horse» with «shall see».
Then u got him

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Let me just remind you guys of a few facts of similar threads by myself - or heavily advocated by myself:

Model X and no nosecone:
Model X mules - is the nose cone gone?

Model X and adaptive spoiler:
Model X mules show signs of a new spoiler?

Drive PX and Model X:
Model X mule(s) show signs of nVidia Tegra X1 Drive PX platform - no rear mirror!

Model X delays and Eds:
Delay in model X launch?

ALL of these were things where many people (even prominent people) on TMC said my theories were not plausible, were never happening etc., "MobilEye is the partner, not Nvidia!" etc. etc.

And all happened.

I still remember the day when adaptive spoiler was first spotted. Kudos to a lot of people here who changed their minds about me on that day. I had been the sole voice saying that, analyzing that for months. And then it came.

That doesn't mean everything I estimate comes to fruition, or that they come to fruition exactly as I estimate (for example AP "1.5" clearly existed but did not ship, and Drive PX came in second gen, not first... Is Model X (or was?) getting an "AP 1.5" before full-autonomous "AP 2.0" suite upgrade?), but it does mean some people do have too closed minds - they aren't entertaining possibilities IMO they realistically should be entertaining. That, I find, is my strength. I seem to be unusually open to seeing these things as possible. I am always surprised how closed so many people are to these possibilities.

Entertain the HUD. Thank you.