Model S Service Contracts - the poll edition(tm)!

[dsm363]

Not at all. This is mandatory. You do this or else...

Thats why everyone is all riled up.

You have every right to forgo maintenance and deal with financial consequences if something breaks within the 4 year period or try and find a different Tesla authorized service person (which is only Tesla at this point and part of the problem I guess). Since I'd bet the average price of a Model S sold will be in the high $60k range, we're talking about less than 1% of the cost of the car per year for their service plan. I understand why some people may be upset but as others have pointed out, early adopters often pay more and we're likely helping to pay for building the service network out for the next generation car. Yes, this flies in the face of 'low maintenance' costs but that's probably the reality. We also don't know if the low maintenance costs may be true in years 4-8. It's possible Tesla is telling the truth and once the warranty is done, you'll end up spending less. We'll have to see.

They won't admit it but it's "charged back" against early-adopter-owners who are backing Tesla. Thats not a nice way to treat buyer/investors, most of which are plopping down 6 figures for a young company with a short track record.

That's probably accurate. Most of the Model S customers plopping down 6 figures are Signature customers though and that will be a small percentage of cars a few years from now. That doesn't mean 60-90k isn't a ton of money. The Model S performance does break $100k with every single option including the twin chargers but without the HPWC.

 

[qwk]

Well, consider any service of EV related parts like the "or else" sticker on a hard drive, covering that one last screw you have to remove to get to the physical platters.

If you remove that sticker, you better damn well know WTH you are doing!

We are talking about two different things here. You are talking about warranty issues, I'm talking about maintenace issues, which according to Tesla themselves are minimal. They are not going to dissasemble motors, pem's etc in your garage. In fact rangers dont even work on complex electronic parts. Engineering at headquarters does that.

 

[rcc]

Not at all. This is mandatory. You do this or else...

Thats why everyone is all riled up.

I understand that. But I think people don't realize how much can go wrong with a 2.0 powertrain on a 1.0 car where >90% of the parts are new, not out of an existing parts bin.

In a situation like that, you want Tesla to look over your car with a fine-tooth comb. And with so many part on the car being new, no one else can service the blasted thing anyway.

 

[dflye]

We are talking about two different things here. You are talking about warranty issues, I'm talking about maintenace issues, which according to Tesla themselves are minimal. They are not going to dissasemble motors, pem's etc in your garage. In fact rangers dont even work on complex electronic parts. Engineering at headquarters does that.

True enough, I am somewhat comparing apples and oranges. I guess one of my points is that I wouldn't trust a grease-monkey at Firestone / Sears / etc to get within 100 yards of a Model S when it comes to anything more complicated than changing the wiper blades or checking the pressure in the tires.

As a second point, they would have absolutely no clue what Model S specific issues they should look for.

Sure, the EV related issues would be covered by the warranty, but I'd rather have Tesla diagnose and resolve a problem BEFORE I'm left stranded in BFE due to some issue that could easily have been resolved by a regular service check by a Tesla certified mechanic.

 

[vfx]

There was a segment in Who Killed the Electric Car where a mechanic was showing all the ICE parts that would not be needed to be replaced in an electric car. As a consumer I thought, wow! that's great. But I could not help but think "How can a repair shop stay in business"? Seriously, they have rent, tools, employees, utilities etc.

What GB laid out seems to answer this question with a win win. They get to check the cars and make some money. Owners get to have a safe maintained car.

One idea I heard was to hide the first 5 years of maintenance in the price of the car like BMW is doing. [600X5=$3K] Would that have worked? I think maybe Tesla could have split it. A 200 to 250 service and add $1,500 to the car's price. Maybe they already did...

 

[onlinespending]

One idea I heard was to hide the first 5 years of maintenance in the price of the car like BMW is doing. [600X5=$3K] Would that have worked? I think maybe Tesla could have split it. A 200 to 250 service and add $1,500 to the car's price. Maybe they already did...

I can certainly see that being advantageous. For one, for those financing their cars, they could include the cost in the loan. And for those with certainly state EV benefits, like sales tax being waived, you could avoid paying tax on the maintenance fee if it were included in the cost of the car.

 

[dsm363]

Since we don't know the exact financial decisions they made, it's possible they squeezed every last amount of profit they could to keep their margins intact and still hit the sub $50k price-point after the federal tax credit. That seems to have boxed them in. I think they should just raise the price as vfx suggested since that would likely lead to less anger and people are more used to 4 years of free maintenance that is actually built into the price of the car.

 

[jerry33]

Since we don't know the exact financial decisions they made, it's possible they squeezed every last amount of profit they could to keep their margins intact and still hit the sub $50k price-point after the federal tax credit. That seems to have boxed them in. I think they should just raise the price as vfx suggested since that would likely lead to less anger and people are more used to 4 years of free maintenance that is actually built into the price of the car.

+1. Agreed. Even better they would have the warranty and the maintenance match the battery warranty. That way they could brag about fixed costs for eight years/163,000 km.

 

[dsm363]

Raising the price to $62,400 would give them room for 4 years of maintenance and Xenon headlights standard. Would make Tech package less appealing though.
Maybe people will get used to the idea of a service contract not being bundled into the car.

 

[4sevens.com]

All this hoopla over an EV that's supposed to be simpler, more reliable, and require less maintenance than and ICE. I wish Tesla would just make good on that and put numbers to their marketing talking points and not sell their fans and early adopters down the river.

 

[RDoc]

Since I'm waiting for a Model X, this all should be well settled before I have to come up with some money. I'm willing to pay the service charge cost as it seem prudent with such a new design, but I won't do business with any company I don't trust, no matter what they're selling.

The way they still conceal the price on their website is pretty nasty IMHO. Stating that the car comes with a 4 year/50K warranty without mentioning that it costs another $1900 or more to actually get the warranty is simply bait and switch. Tesla's treatment of its customers over the next couple of years will be very telling, but so far, their trustworthiness seems questionable.

If they haven't come up with a definitive price for service on the car and maintaining the battery warranty after 4 years by the time I have to commit, it'll definitely be a no for me.

 

[4sevens.com]

Since I'm waiting for a Model X, this all should be well settled before I have to come up with some money. I'm willing to pay the service charge cost as it seem prudent with such a new design, but I won't do business with any company I don't trust, no matter what they're selling.

The way they still conceal the price on their website is pretty nasty IMHO. Stating that the car comes with a 4 year/50K warranty without mentioning that it costs another $1900 or more to actually get the warranty is simply bait and switch. Tesla's treatment of its customers over the next couple of years will be very telling, but so far, their trustworthiness seems questionable.

If they haven't come up with a definitive price for service on the car and maintaining the battery warranty after 4 years by the time I have to commit, it'll definitely be a no for me.

IMHO they need to fix this asap. Consumer perception of this matter will continue to go down if they don't respond. If those car journalism pick up this thread - the problem will only get bigger. C'mon Tesla, be upfront with all the costs and don't stick your customers with "gotchas" to be discovered later. Maybe they'll sucker in people for the S but it's going to affect future purchase such as the X and Gen III... You can't market something as $ then add but this and but that. Especially using the threat of voiding a warranty to "force" people to purchase other "services"

 

[ElSupreme]

Since I'm waiting for a Model X, this all should be well settled before I have to come up with some money. I'm willing to pay the service charge cost as it seem prudent with such a new design, but I won't do business with any company I don't trust, no matter what they're selling.

The way they still conceal the price on their website is pretty nasty IMHO. Stating that the car comes with a 4 year/50K warranty without mentioning that it costs another $1900 or more to actually get the warranty is simply bait and switch. Tesla's treatment of its customers over the next couple of years will be very telling, but so far, their trustworthiness seems questionable.

If they haven't come up with a definitive price for service on the car and maintaining the battery warranty after 4 years by the time I have to commit, it'll definitely be a no for me.

IMHO they need to fix this asap. Consumer perception of this matter will continue to go down if they don't respond. If those car journalism pick up this thread - the problem will only get bigger. C'mon Tesla, be upfront with all the costs and don't stick your customers with "gotchas" to be discovered later. Maybe they'll sucker in people for the S but it's going to affect future purchase such as the X and Gen III... You can't market something as $ then add but this and but that. Especially using the threat of voiding a warranty to "force" people to purchase other "services"

It's on the front page of their website! How much less 'concealed' do you want it.

They have a WHOLE PAGE dedicated to service! http://www.teslamotors.com/service
In the Facts on the Model S page they say you can get service at Tesla or they can come to you! http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

The only people who can complain about poor Tesla action are the people who had already signed MVPA documents. And then only on price, and Tesla claiming 'much less maintenance than an ICE' while charging on par with expensive ICE maintenance.
You have to maintain ANY car to keep the warranty in tact. Right now Tesla is the only place that can truly maintain their cars. In the future you will be able to go to another shop and get your Tesla maintained there. But until then George B's "you have to get service at Tesla or your warranty is void" is functionally true. Besides if you don't get dealer service on ANY car you are running a risk of voiding your warranty.

 

[4sevens.com]

It's on the front page of their website! How much less 'concealed' do you want it.


They have a WHOLE PAGE dedicated to service! http://www.teslamotors.com/service
In the Facts on the Model S page they say you can get service at Tesla or they can come to you! http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

The only people who can complain about poor Tesla action are the people who had already signed MVPA documents. And then only on price, and Tesla claiming 'much less maintenance than an ICE' while charging on par with expensive ICE maintenance.
You have to maintain ANY car to keep the warranty in tact. Right now Tesla is the only place that can truly maintain their cars. In the future you will be able to go to another shop and get your Tesla maintained there. But until then George B's "you have to get service at Tesla or your warranty is void" is functionally true. Besides if you don't get dealer service on ANY car you are running a risk of voiding your warranty.

NONE of those links were up when I put my $ deposit down AND when I signed the MVPA. I suspect maybe close to TEN thousand deposits were placed BEFORE they announced any kind of service fee - nothing of the sort was even MENTIONED.
What about the configuration page that was up almost a year ago.... Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
NO mention of any kind of service fee. All the while they claim more reliability costing less than ICE.

The problem is all that you pointed out are all NEW developments... they're making the rules as they go. Don't you get it?
Transforming auto service LOL... Sounds like the whole "hope and change" promise... yeah for the worse...

AUTO SERVICE that you MUST pay for OTHERWISE your WARRANTY IS VOID. CRAMMED DOWN YOUR THROAT STYLE.


You're statement "Besides if you don't get dealer service on ANY car you are running a risk of voiding your warranty."

Ok... but for example my bmw is covered for both service and warranty for 4 years/ 50,000 miles
All covered...

Now if for example I'm about to write a check for the car they pop up and say... well... you're going to have to pay $XXX for service otherwise your warranty may be voided... I'd be pretty mad.... and just walk out the door ESPECIALLY if I had put down a $ deposit over a year ago...


Get the point now?

 

[sublimaze1]

I am not a complainer, but after reading 4sevens and ElSupreme's posts, I have to state that I signed my MVPA on August 7th and this information was not disclosed, to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps George B will read my missive here and evaluate those of us who entered into the agreement prior to such disclosure. I am not asking for a handout or a free entitlement grant. I simply want to understand the workflow here and how this unfolded (or unraveled) and how it is viewed by both Management and Owners alike.

 

[RDoc]

@ ElSupreme
The reference to the service blog is one of several rotating links on the front page. Depending on when you go to it, you may not see it at all. In any case, the blog entry doesn't say the service plan is required for the warranty to be honored. However, the specs page clearly states the warranty is 50k miles/4 years without any mention of the service contract being a required purchase for the warranty to be in effect. There is no mention of the service plan on the options page, although it has to be purchased within the first 30 days. There is no place I'm aware of on the Tesla web site with the exception of GB's reply to the service blog post where it states that the service plan is a requirement for keeping the warranty intact.

You may feel this is sufficient disclosure, however I don't.

 

[4sevens.com]

It's not just a matter of disclosure and accessibility - it's also about timing... they made this up as they went... there wasn't even a mention of a "manditory service... cost TBA"
It just popped out of nowhere after so many had already put their deposits in (more than 10,000).

Even know the disclosure is inadequate... just the fact that it's not mentioned in the options and pricing page indicates that they're "playing by ear"
Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors (link mentioned again for emphasis)

If it was any other automaker they'd be in a whole lot of trouble already... there are lots of auto specific laws to protect consumers and prevent this kind of thing from happening.
I think the heat on them is yet to come.... they can't get away with this.

They marketed and sold a concept, took money for it and now things changed.

 

[ElSupreme]

NONE of those links were up when I put my $ deposit down AND when I signed the MVPA.

Well you can always get your deposit back. Them adding things that you can buy (or not buy) later has no bearing there. Get your $5k back. If you actually look I made a specific not for people who had already signed their MVPAs!

The only people who can complain about poor Tesla action are the people who had already signed MVPA documents. And then only on price, and Tesla claiming 'much less maintenance than an ICE' while charging on par with expensive ICE maintenance.

I suspect maybe close to TEN thousand deposits were placed BEFORE they announced any kind of service fee - nothing of the sort was even MENTIONED.
What about the configuration page that was up almost a year ago.... Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
NO mention of any kind of service fee. All the while they claim more reliability costing less than ICE.

Not expecting a cost to service an automobile is the problem here. Not the actual servicing of the car. Again if you have a deposit and don't like the deal get your money back. The don't promise ANYTHING when you put the deposit money down.

The problem is all that you pointed out are all NEW developments... they're making the rules as they go. Don't you get it?
Transforming auto service LOL... Sounds like the whole "hope and change" promise... yeah for the worse...

And unless you signed a MVPA this is a a non-argument. Apparently you have, which I do feel for you. But you should have expected some maintenance cost. I was expecting about half of what they put out there.

AUTO SERVICE that you MUST pay for OTHERWISE your WARRANTY IS VOID. CRAMMED DOWN YOUR THROAT STYLE.

THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERY CAR SOLD TODAY! Sure there are a lot of people that can service your Malibu, go to whoever can. But as of right now there is no way to get your car properly maintained/inspected other than through Tesla. This sucks. It is the truth. It makes it functionally mandatory that you get service through Tesla to keep your warranty in place. You can always document your maintenance/inspections and show that you properly maintained the car and should have a warranty kept valid, like with any other car. But you won't be able to for a while! I would never take my car to a non-dealer to maintain during my warranty period. You are asking for them to invalidate your warranty.

I think the cost of maintenance is WAY to high. A BMW 5 series cost the same to maintain for the SECOND 50,000 miles. Which is way more costly than the first 50,000 miles. Brake pads included is a joke. Maintenance costs for me will be about double the power costs to charge the car. Yeah $450 ever 12,000 miles is a lot of money. Yeah I really think it should have been about $450 a year (regardless of miles). But $450 every 12,000 miles isn't 'screw-em-over' excessive.

 

[Mycroft]

Would it have been nice if the pricing of maintenance matched the marketing guff about the low maintenance requirements for EVs, YES.

That said, I don't feel that $475 per year/12k is a deal killer for a "premium" sedan. My hope is that by the time Gen III comes out, the service centers are paid for, and Tesla has more data, the maintenance price will fall to a much more reasonable $200/year. For now, Tesla has to pay for those service centers somehow.

 

[ElSupreme]

The reference to the service blog is one of several rotating links on the front page.

So you think a dedicated page, and a front page spot (shared with some other blog posts), is not sufficient for people to find this info? I personally don't think warranty information warrants a huge disclaimer on a main page. If I care I can easily find the page from the front page navigation.

Depending on when you go to it, you may not see it at all. In any case, the blog entry doesn't say the service plan is required for the warranty to be honored. However, the specs page clearly states the warranty is 50k miles/4 years without any mention of the service contract being a required purchase for the warranty to be in effect. There is no mention of the service plan on the options page, although it has to be purchased within the first 30 days. There is no place I'm aware of on the Tesla web site with the exception of GB's reply to the service blog post where it states that the service plan is a requirement for keeping the warranty intact.

You may feel this is sufficient disclosure, however I don't.

YOU MUST SERVICE YOUR CAR FOR THE WARRANTY TO REMAIN VALID! THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERY CAR SOLD TODAY!