Model X Falcon Doors

[bonnie]

There are no Model X test drives yet - the beta versions aren't even in the stores.

There were a number of cancelled Model S reservations once details and pricing were released, so I'm not sure that's going to prove anyone's point about the doors. I think it IS a valid point that reservations appear to be ahead of the Model S on the same timeline, though to be fair, Tesla is much better known now.

Tesla would be insane to offer both doors to begin with. I get it. Some of you don't like the falcon wing doors. But this vehicle can't be everything to everyone. They need to offer a version and get that out the door, not delay things while they keep adding options.

My personal opinion regarding the angst about the doors is pretty simple: People have difficulty accepting change. The folks who don't like them keep coming up with reasons why Tesla should offer other doors, rather than just saying 'I don't like 'em'. The people who don't much care or do like them don't see all these other problems.

 

[AnOutsider]

There will be a number of cancelled reservations once details, pricing, etc. are released.

Course there will be... but the falcon wings are known and yet still reservations were made. Just trying to make the point that many don't mind the wings.

 

[scottf200]

Some aspects of Tesla's designs seem a bit sunny California centric. One of the subtler issues here is the difference in style.

Not sure why you are saying that knowing that there are many Roadsters and Model S sold in very cold and snowy places (other than north america). Elon points this out regularly in interviews. AWD definately fits these places as well. That is a large target so they will make sure it works at those locations.

 

[tander]

There are no Model X test drives yet - the beta versions aren't even in the stores.

There were a number of cancelled Model S reservations once details and pricing were released, so I'm not sure that's going to prove anyone's point about the doors. I think it IS a valid point that reservations appear to be ahead of the Model S on the same timeline, though to be fair, Tesla is much better known now.

Tesla would be insane to offer both doors to begin with. I get it. Some of you don't like the falcon wing doors. But this vehicle can't be everything to everyone. They need to offer a version and get that out the door, not delay things while they keep adding options.

My personal opinion regarding the angst about the doors is pretty simple: People have difficulty accepting change. The folks who don't like them keep coming up with reasons why Tesla should offer other doors, rather than just saying 'I don't like 'em'. The people who don't much care or do like them don't see all these other problems.

Totally agree Bonnie. Bottom line is if they've done a good job on the falcon/gullwing doors, which means minimizing all safety and usability issues with the doors, people are going to like them. It's a giant leap in car door design terms so it seems natural that they won't meet immediate widespread acceptance, but if they have built them so no 4 year olds or grandparents are going to get injured by user error and they won't be hitting the tops of garages etc., then people will accept and could eventually even desire them in time. The cool thing is that Tesla doesn't need widespread acceptance right away, 40-50k cars isn't actually that many cars to sell (not to diminish the accomplishment).Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): Tesla Model X: Too Much, Too Fast? - Seeking Alpha

 

[100thMonkey]

...My personal opinion regarding the angst about the doors is pretty simple: People have difficulty accepting change. The folks who don't like them keep coming up with reasons why Tesla should offer other doors, rather than just saying 'I don't like 'em'. The people who don't much care or do like them don't see all these other problems.

That's fair, perhaps I should just get over it and set my sights on something else but I really like Tesla and I would really like a Tesla replacement for our hybrid highlander, which we gave up to get the S. right now we are constrained with the S and the Leaf. I've played around with Bio-diesel and hybrids and have completely fallen in love with pure EV's and now that we own a Tesla, I am now really partial to Tesla as no one else has so many things figured out. The X nails it in looks and many parameters but not functionality. I've been somewhat doubtful but hoping to be surprised that some kind of cargo option would be announced, but so far, we are left to doing our own cad design mock ups. I want an SUV I can use for actual Sport Utility, not just as a minivan. we may just have to give up on the X for a cycle or two and go with the Mistubishi Outlander PHEV though that would feel like a big step backwards. I'd be satisfied waiting, if I knew Tesla was going to offer regular or suicide doors down the line or if they came out with a brilliant plan to allow true sport utility function without requiring a trailer... I'm all ears!

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Maybe so, but so much of what I like about the S is that it's design is practical and beautiful. The X feels like style at the expense of practicality. Aside from wanting to put stuff up top, I simply can't imagine opening the back doors in this wind and rain we've been having lately without large quantities of water making into the car. Some aspects of Tesla's designs seem a bit sunny California centric. One of the subtler issues here is the difference in style. the northwest, as you know, is a bit more casual and toned down, the falcon doors are rather overly attention drawing for the social norms here. /…/ I just don't see the sense is keeping the options limited to the realm of super exotic.

Reading this got me a little curious…

Socially and economically, what do you think the consequences could be for someone in the Northwest who can afford a Model X with Falcon Wing doors?

 

[tander]

Reading this got me a little curious…

Socially and economically, what do you think the consequences could be for someone in the Northwest who can afford a Model X with Falcon Wing doors?

Like anywhere it would depend on the person, but in the NW where it is normal to see a Model S daily in big cities, it is still pretty uncommon to see "exotic" cars, nothing like you might see in LA or Bay area. The number of cars you see over 100k$ is very low, probably for economic, social, and weather reasons. What about in Sweden?

 

[EchoDelta]

Reading this got me a little curious…

Socially and economically, what do you think the consequences could be for someone in the Northwest who can afford a Model X with Falcon Wing doors?

Just speculating as I'm in the NW - but I think it wouldn't be an issue. A MS or MX design is understated and is not like a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley or a Hummer. The MS/MX is either not overtly recognizable or is recognized as a techie car; and at least the seattle area tends to like tech. I look forward to the falcon doors. I'm willing to test the design hypothesis and agree the extra attention is an initial 'price'.

Then again, many years ago I bought a hardtop convertible MB and that also attracted some attention but everyone was positive. It solved an evident design tradeoff elegantly; and people appreciated it even if it was in an expensive bracket at the time. I think the falcon doors are in a similar category - may feel gimmicky if explained on paper, but when you see it/experience it, there's a little "aha" moment. These days you can get a hardtop VW convertible and people just think "it's a smart design" not "it's an extravagant design". Maybe falcon wing doors will go the same route.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ What about in Sweden?

I guess I don’t really know. But I can always speculate. :smile:

All Teslas this far (including the X when it will become available) have been expensive. Compared to the US they’re even more expensive in Sweden because of the 25% VAT and the lower EV incentives. On top of that, Sweden also currently has worse EV charging infrastructure than the US.

To me, what sets the Teslas apart from all other expensive vehicles – well, all other vehicles really – is that they offer an owner a way to substantially lower his/hers CO2-footprint. And while doing so, this owner also enables Tesla to bring the gen3 ~35K$ car to market. And to me, any other person with normal intellectual abilities should be able to come to same conclusion.

So to me, it’s not about someone being perceived as ‘important/successful’ (as in more important/successful than anyone else), or about someone ‘trying to show-off’. Instead it’s about someone that has the means and the ability, doing something fundamentally good. Not only for themselves and their family, but also for everyone else.

To me that completely dwarfs any and all concerns about some social norm that in this particular case, just is not – in any way – grounded in reality.

Something like that. :smile:

 

[100thMonkey]

Reading this got me a little curious…
Socially and economically, what do you think the consequences could be for someone in the Northwest who can afford a Model X with Falcon Wing doors?

That is a very interesting question. there is a stigma here against SUV's, because of how gratuitously wasteful the gas versions are and there is a stigma against really expensive and showy cars. A Tesla counters both those stigmas somewhat because we are so tech oriented here, especially green tech and because supporting this company accelerates the economy of scale necessary to get to a mid sized mass produced ICE alternative. Socially, buying a Tesla has a bit of a philanthropic twist. The tolerance for compromising value systems only goes so far though, if the falcon wings turn something as simple as dropping the kids off at school into a spectacle, people may not give pardon to the X. More importantly, if a prospective owner feels concerned about the image, they may not buy the vehicle for fear of appearing too snooty and elitist and gratuitously consumptive and vain. Superior functionality might overcome this, it certainly has with the S, but it has to be practical. People who otherwise look with scorn at BMW's, Audi's and Mercedes lust over the S, relatively free of judgement because it's bad-ass, green tech and very versatile. It is generally socially accepted amongst the pro mass transit, bike commuting, prius loving folks around here. Time will tell of the X will be welcome in the same way and I believe having an option to the falcon doors may be critical. I'll probably get over the look issue if the hinge of the door can adapt to opening so one can still get a rack/kayak on top and still get in and out easily (having to get a trailer for a kayak would be a deal breaker). if it's both cool and practical, morays will adjust.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

The reasoning above (in my post #409) is also why I look forward to Tesla hopefully revealing an AWD version of the S, and why I also think it would be a good thing if Tesla made it possible to order the S with a factory mounted hitch option. At least in Scandinavia/Europe. As I understand it, in the US, it’s apparently difficult to get hold of a trailer with brakes that can be synchronized with the car that’s pulling it.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I am now really partial to Tesla as no one else has so many things figured out. The X nails it in looks and many parameters but not functionality.

I suggest you make a little noise with your local Tesla store/service personnel about how important this is to you. Customer feedback is always a good thing.

That being said, we are talking about a car that is just shy of a year away from being released to the public. While most major design considerations are likely already finalized, we have no knowledge of them. So I'd also suggest giving Tesla a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. It's not that the X is not practical... it's that we don't yet know whether it solves the issues that concern us or not. Let us wait and find out before judging too harshly.

 

[bonnie]

I'm looking forward to the day when Tesla has an entire lineup of vehicles, all with many different options, so that we can each get exactly what we want. It will happen. We're just not there yet.

In no way do I mean my remarks to suggest that what someone else wants/likes/desires is less important. It's just that Tesla can only get out one thing at a time. Right now it appears that falcon wing doors are what is in the queue. I'm good with that. And I get that some others aren't. And I hope Tesla has something that works for them in another round, too.

 

[JRP3]

The tolerance for compromising value systems only goes so far though, if the falcon wings turn something as simple as dropping the kids off at school into a spectacle, people may not give pardon to the X.

Is it really such a judgmental area you live in, and do you really care that much what others think that you're worried about how it looks when the doors open up?

 

[jerry33]

The X feels like style at the expense of practicality.

Not sure about that. The idea was that child seats would be easy to manage and you could stand out of the rain in the X while doing so. Now if you don't have a need to manage child seats, then that's a different story, but child seats are what the X was designed for. When it's really windy and rainy every car gets a ton of water in it. I don't see that it would be any worse than a minivan.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

My wife and I see the "falcon wings" as greatly enhancing the ease of access to both the second and third rows in Model X. That applies to adults of above-average age and/or below-average sprightliness as well as children. We love the fact that it enables far better access to the inside of the car in narrow parking spots.

I have trouble understanding how the way a door opens can possibly "compromise people's value systems", honestly. It's a CAR DOOR, not a statement of my economic, political, stylistic, or other preferences. As Freud famously said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

 

[Anzir]

It is a significant improvement in functionality and gives the X an important design cue that distinguishes it from being a "lifted AWD S". No Falcon doors, no deposit for me.

 

[RobStark]

Driving a vehicle with falcon wing doors in the Pacific Northwest means you chop down 1,000 year old Redwood Trees on the weekends as a hobby.

 

[Surf Dog]

I agree the Falcon Doors may appeal to some, but they have issues that will tend to limit the Model X's market segment. Elon Musk has said that he is a big proponent of "Optionality". This is a perfect example of the need for Options.

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I don't think anyone has suggested that Falcon Doors not be an option. I agree the Falcon Doors may appeal to some, but they have issues that will tend to limit the Model X's market segment. Elon Musk has said that he is a big proponent of "Optionality". This is a perfect example of the need for Options.

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All I am asking for is options. I agree the Falcon Doors may appeal to some, but they have issues that will tend to limit the Model X's market segment. Elon Musk has said that he is a big proponent of "Optionality". This is a perfect example of the need for Options.

I would absolutely love to have a Model X, but I cannot imagine how I would be able to carry all the equipment that I have always easily carried on my roof. The Luggage Carrier Pictured would be fine for smaller items, but would never do for the large 40+ lb. kayaks that I routinely carry 2 of, and sometimes as many as 6-8 of.

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That's not true. I have rented trailers at U-Haul with brakes of various types.

 

[RobStark]

Lets say Falcon doors makes 50% of the premium SUV/CUV market remove Model X from consideration.

And 50% of the market thinks Falcon Doors makes the Model X a must have.

That is a massive win. Being a very small manufacture means you don't have to make Camries . Plain vanilla cars that have the widest possible appeal without alienating anyone.

You can make vehicles that make 10% of the market passionate fans that become advocates for the brand.

Falcon doors will appeal to more than a tiny fraction of the market.

Adding complexity to manufacturing by offering multiple door options at launch or even early in the production cycle is a bad idea.