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Model X Mule Sightings

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What happened to the whole 'Occam's Razor' line of thinking? Whoooosh. Faster than a Model X, it disappeared into the night! :)

I don't know--I actually think Occam's Razor works pretty well here, too. IIRC the context of his statement was in response to a question about when they planned to show the Model X in advance of selling them, something they did with both the Model S and the D. His response was basically, "we're not going to do that with the X; the first time people see it is when we're making deliveries." He then went on to talk about some features that would be a surprise.

That's a far cry from a vow to keep the car perfectly hidden and not test prototypes on the road. No offense to any that hold an opposing view, but I think you're reading more into his words than they necessarily bear.


Re: mules--yes, I agree that's what mules are (and what they are for). My point is that, at some point, you've done all you can with a rough, cobbled together mule. You've got the gross calibrations for the powertrain and suspension done, etc. At that point, you have to build prototypes that aren't rough mules--they need to be closer to production spec, so you can test fitment of the various components, and so you can start to do finer calibrations.

All I am saying is that with launch really only weeks away, they absolutely, positively have prototypes extant that are very close to production spec. They may still have some cobbled together mules, too, but the kinds of things you can learn from those are hopefully things you've already learned.
 
but those can all be built behind closed doors. all the bits i stated would need MILES on the clock. final tweaky things can be done in there factory test track thing that has been described before.

we will all see, hopefully, this month. i have no interest in the model X but the story itself is captivating my interest.
 
Re: mules--yes, I agree that's what mules are (and what they are for). My point is that, at some point, you've done all you can with a rough, cobbled together mule. You've got the gross calibrations for the powertrain and suspension done, etc. At that point, you have to build prototypes that aren't rough mules--they need to be closer to production spec, so you can test fitment of the various components, and so you can start to do finer calibrations.

Absolutely true. And you're talking about testing to specific protocols, not random driving about on public roads.
 
At this point if the design studio is delayed, I can't imagine it's going to be delayed past the next earnings call. If they have to sit on the phone in August during the investors call and explain why they don't have a car nearly ready it's just going to be awkward.
 
I love to ship some Norwegian chocolate to bonnie if she is right. I can take some with me if it is a Event that I can join.
Elon some times says things that is not gone through verification, if I can call it that.
He also told us earlier this year that RC cars would be produced in Q1 in the hundreds.
He lately told us the Autopilot would be out to Beta testes in a month, any report this have happened. :-(
I belive is what we see is what we get, with better panel fits and a fantastisk seats not just in the 2. Row. ;-)
 
From what I've counted, there are definitely more than a few mules running the routes we've witnessed. Perhaps the number photographed is less than ten, but it could be much more. All the blacks are definitely not the same car, not even the while-clad mules were all the same car. Some have been photographed out of state or coming out of state.

The trim and panels on those mules has remained essentially the same, but fit has improved over the past six months significantly. (Lights, roof and nose cone of course are camo wrapped, and some trim is missing - but even those remain pretty much the same throughout 2015 so far.)

If Tesla indeed is hiding a different final front, back and profile exterior - as bonnie predicts - at factory, then Tesla has built for the mules an ever-improving set of exterior parts, that keeps looking closer to final with each passing month, yet one that wouldn't ship as a final product. That would be pretty amazing, and I mean that seriously.

Since the mules are numerous and feature the same design in improved interations, it begs the question, if this is not the final design we see on the mules (minus some hidden lights, trim, masks, fit improvements and interior which I assume is borrowed from Model S thusfar), for what purpose did Tesla build these parts and kept improving the fit of this alternate design?

Mere cobbling together "alpha parts" won't explain the continuously and vastly improving fit - and alpha parts wouldn't necessarily be much different from final anyway. So since these parts clearly are not for the 2012-2013 prototype, and if they are significantly different from the final Model X, what design are they running on the roads? Was there some interim design, say in late 2013, early 2014, they built all these body panels for and are now using on the mules... and are hiding a completely new 2015 design? Because all those panels have to come from somewhere. Was there a design switch that made Tesla abandon the parts that are now seen on the mules? Or did they build a fake design just to throw us off the track?

I'm not sure Occam's razor supports the idea that these mules would feature a non-final design for the most part (minus some secrets and camo). Competitor precedent certainly wouldn't support such idea, since they drive wrapped, yet final mules all the time. Model S precendent doesn't either, it was seen in ever-improving iterations towards its launch.

If Tesla indeed has hidden a completely different Model X design for front, back *and* profile of the Model X - as bonnie predicts - they have gone against the Occam's razor quite successfully. Hats off to them if so. I'm not talking about details like swapped light fixtures or a changed bumper, those of course can change more easily, but I'm talking of different front, back *and* profile.

I'm not a betting kind of guy. I care about improving our knowledge. Who is right is only interesting to the extent it helps in that goal. Thus I am merely curious of why and how Tesla would have pulled off such a feat, and how much of a likelihood we should place on it.

I'm not sure. Feel free to debate or offer ideas to the above.
 
I'd love to see Tesla strip off all the coverings on front and back of the Model X mules, apply all the Tesla make and model badges in all their glory, pack ALL of the mules into trailers, and ship ALL of 'em to states like New Mexico that completely ban Tesla from opening stores AND service centers, and release them to the heavily populated areas for further "testing." And maybe some leaks to the media. Model X would be very popular here in NM.

It would be such a hoot to see wall-to-wall Tesla coverage in the TV, radio, and print media in such states. It'd create more positive public awareness, and drive the evil auto dealers associations insane. What's not to like?
 
If Tesla indeed is hiding a different final front, back and profile exterior - as bonnie predicts - at factory, then Tesla has built for the mules an ever-improving set of exterior parts, that keeps looking closer to final with each passing month, yet one that wouldn't ship as a final product. That would be pretty amazing, and I mean that seriously.

Since the mules are numerous and feature the same design in improved interations, it begs the question, if this is not the final design we see on the mules (minus some hidden lights, trim, masks, fit improvements and interior which I assume is borrowed from Model S thusfar), for what purpose did Tesla build these parts and kept improving the fit of this alternate design?

Mere cobbling together "alpha parts" won't explain the continuously and vastly improving fit - and alpha parts wouldn't necessarily be much different from final anyway. So since these parts clearly are not for the 2012-2013 prototype, and if they are significantly different from the final Model X, what design are they running on the roads? Was there some interim design, say in late 2013, early 2014, they built all these body panels for and are now using on the mules... and are hiding a completely new 2015 design? Because all those panels have to come from somewhere. Was there a design switch that made Tesla abandon the parts that are now seen on the mules? Or did they build a fake design just to throw us off the track?

If Tesla indeed has hidden a completely different Model X design for front, back *and* profile of the Model X - as bonnie predicts - they have gone against the Occam's razor quite successfully. Hats off to them if so. I'm not talking about details like swapped light fixtures or a changed bumper, those of course can change more easily, but I'm talking of different front, back *and* profile.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Tesla does not have the resources to be "hiding" a final Model X with vastly different body panels and making "mules" with fake panels to throw us off. The dies to make panels are extremely expensive, not to mention the costs to the production line to make such panels.

What Tesla is driving around are "production candidate" vehicles which are straight off the final production line. They're in the final stages of finishing the production line and robot programming and getting supplier parts in order to start production. Yes, the panel fit and finish have been improving but what you see on the exterior is the real deal.

If anyone pays attention to Tesla, and we all do here, prototypes always show what the final exterior product will look like, minus minor deviances, but it's the *INTERIOR* that changes drastically. The rear spoiler was a surprise, good call on that! Why do you think they've been driving around production candidates with blacked out side windows and wrapped rear windows? They're hiding the interior which is what Elon has said was very special.

Let's not forget there's plenty of evidence that Model X will come with next-generation NVDIA Drive PX auto pilot hardware as part of the "surprise".

Musk says we're pretty good at figuring stuff out but I've never bought into the whole conspiracy theory that the body panels are fake. Tesla doesn't work that way.
 
Soooo ... you're saying that what we've been seeing is pretty much the final version? :)

('Splain timing to me again about how production validation runs can begin in the last few weeks or so, yet production vehicles can be out on the road? Cuz I just can't wrap my brain around that one. And while you're at it, let's talk about why all the mules are showing up by HQ and not by the factory - even when they're loading one up to go to Michigan - and why they'd do that on a public road when they have tons of private space both at the factory and at HQ where it could be done behind locked gates, away from public view.)

Anyway, time will tell. I'm comfortable with my opinion that's been held for quite awhile now. Perhaps I'll go down in flames. But perhaps not. Like I said, time will tell.
 
the final product is going to be far more exciting looking than the bland show car and mules we have seen. :wink:

But what if it's not? I feel people here should temper their expectations a bit so they aren't let down. This is one scenario where pessimism might be beneficial. If you're right we're psyched, if you're wrong it's most likely the same vehicle we've seen already. (minus the mysterious interior). We'll know probably by mid-August.
 
JST's post sums up the most likely line of thinking. You are taking Elon's words literally, which is a stretch.

In my neck of the woods we do ban bets. A month ban for whoever is wrong sounds reasonable to me (with a mod's blessing, of course).

That's a little sad. I have a better idea. The loser will have to put in his/her signature: "This post is vastly inferior to anything [bet-winner] has ever posted." or words to that effect for a month's time.

I'm in JST's camp, but not ready to go bet on it...
 

I haven't seen it before. First time I've seen the rear window down...

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