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Model X reveal impact on TSLA

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The seats don't just move forwards they also tilt forwards. You don't need that cut out at the front of the pedestal to tilt the seat forwards. That cutout is needed to extend a hydraulic arm when tilting the seat backwards all the way flat.

Not at all. The seat pedestal is angled towards the rear in normal seating position. As the seat is moved forward the pedestal makes an arc as it goes through vertical and past it, which tips the seat forward. I'm quite sure you are over complicating the design and projecting things that aren't there.
 
Except that simple flat folding seats copied from other SUV designs would have been easier and cheaper than the powered seats that move forward on pedestals.

Regular doors would have been far simpler than falcon wing doors, but the X will have falcon wing doors.

Tesla said that the seats would fold flat and early buyers have been told that, no, they won't.
Early buyers are also being asked to confirm purchases and Tesla staff can't answer basic questions.
All of this has followed a series of 1 to 2 months of delays per quarter, Tesla borrowing money against inventory and finally needing a cash raise before the X release to hedge against production problems.

All of that doesn't mean that there won't be fold flat options in the future. Julian is right in that Tesla's approach has been for Elon Musk to insist on _trying_ to make something exceptional, but the Tesla pattern is consistent: suffer product delays, burn extra cash, sell with options missing because they can't wait any longer, release options later.

I expect the reveal impact on TSLA to be negative, with possible neutral because people _always_ get excited before any Tesla event, the media reaches a crescendo with ridiculously optimistic ideas, and count of articles referring to Trip Chowdhry's bullish(it) fabrications goes up. Then the event happens and TSLA drops. In this case, it's possible that the reveal of real information about the X, including some features "coming soon" will instantiate the X and give people enough confidence to hold the price. But in the cold light of day, I think that people will be relieved instead of excited and TSLA will fall back, until Tesla is able to ramp production.
 
.....I expect the reveal impact on TSLA to be negative, with possible neutral because people _always_ get excited before any Tesla event, the media reaches a crescendo with ridiculously optimistic ideas, and count of articles referring to Trip Chowdhry's bullish(it) fabrications goes up. Then the event happens and TSLA drops. In this case, it's possible that the reveal of real information about the X, including some features "coming soon" will instantiate the X and give people enough confidence to hold the price. But in the cold light of day, I think that people will be relieved instead of excited and TSLA will fall back, until Tesla is able to ramp production.

I would tend to agree in general with speculation exceeding reality for typical events....but is that true for tomorrow's Model X event? The most consistent message I find in the media is that the launch is "important" with little or no discussion of features or details....or much excitement. The mood on TMC is significantly worse, with speculation that seat designs could lead to rampant cancellations and significant gloom related to Model X as a deliverable and Tesla's ability to ramp production. Nothing from analysts. The stock price has dropped from a high on September 21st after the invites went out of 271.57 to a low of 249 interday today....not much of a run up pre-announcement (although some of that may be Macro). Elon usually pre-announces Tesla events with Hyperbole - "End of Range Anxiety". "Missing Piece to Building a Sustainable Future". There hasn't even been a press release.

If if this is excitement/optimism/crescendo....I'm not seeing it.
 
All of that doesn't mean that there won't be fold flat options in the future. Julian is right in that Tesla's approach has been for Elon Musk to insist on _trying_ to make something exceptional, but the Tesla pattern is consistent: suffer product delays, burn extra cash, sell with options missing because they can't wait any longer, release options later.

I expect the reveal impact on TSLA to be negative, with possible neutral because people _always_ get excited before any Tesla event, the media reaches a crescendo with ridiculously optimistic ideas.

You see here's the thing. Tesla Model X is NOT mission critical to Tesla. It was thought to be mission critical initially to make the 20, 35, 50K unit sales ramp called for in the business plan pre-launch of the Model S.

In the event, Model S did all that without the need for Model X to even exist. Elon therefore has had the luxury of time to do whatever he liked to make the Model X as adventurous and awesome as he pleased and so he took the time. They even waited for the silicon-graphite anode cell to go into production for the 90KWh pack and launched Tesla Energy as an outlet for previous generation cell supply. It is all bear BS to imagine that Tesla is forced to do anything, especially in relation to Model X. Model X was originally supposed to be a simple body shell variant of Model S. By the time Musk was done it turned out to have a 30% parts commonality. Why? Because they did not need to rush Model X to make sales numbers from the Model S skateboard. They hit the objectives of the business plan without it.

Hence the whole thing is a bonus - a free spin of the Elon Musk roulette wheel, you know the one where Musk goes all in on lucky number 7 and there just happens to be a neodymium magnet under number 7.

What Model X means for the business is that the $2.3 billion they raised for the Gigafactory gets cycled through Model X and comes out worth $5 or $6 billion. Which is really kinda cool, I like the idea of Tesla having a greater % ownership in Nevada.

From what I am seeing around here, what we have going in to the Model X unveiling is not a ridiculously optimistic picture, it is a ridiculously pessimistic picture.

Sometimes Musk says this, sometimes Musk says that sometimes he says that the Model X is a phenomenal vehicle and a better SUV than the Model S was a better sedan.

Who here seriously imagines that Musk is going to unveil a phenomenal SUV with second row seats as a work of art that don't fold flat and with a recline control clearly visible on the side that does not work???? Because if there is an opposite of Kool Aide who ever you are, stop, you're drunk on the stuff - which is exactly where the shorts need to be. You know the ones that pay the bills every single time things go exactly in accordance with a rational and pragmatic view of this business.

TSLA @ $248 ($40+ off the ATH) when a phenomenal SUV's second row seats are supposedly unable to offer the functionality of a standard SUV. Looks like it might contain a little bit of upside surprise not just to the shorts but apparently to a number of Longs too. Just a thought.

BTW - if Musk reconfirms confidence in end of year numbers in addition to quashing silly non functioning seat rumors, there is $30 of upside by end of play Thursday.
 
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Because if there is an opposite of Kool Aide who ever you are, stop, you're drunk on the stuff


That would be


haterade_by_metalmaster2004.jpg
 
Also in the category of what Tesla has said repeatedly to several Sig holders: no reveal event on the 29th.
I don't consider that comparable. It's one thing to give wrong information about a free event which Signature reservation holders might be invited to if Tesla feels like it. It's another thing to give wrong information about a product that the buyers have put down a $40,000 deposit on and are paying $132,000+ for. Especially as many Signature reservation holders have been forced to confirm before the launch or lose their place in the line. If I ordered a car in this price range and put down a massive deposit, and set the wheels in motion with regards to charging options, insurance, financing, etc, only to find out later that the information provided was false, the probability that I would be angry would be high. (Even if I got a full refund.)

Of course, if the delivered product is superior to the ordered product, that's fine, but "superior" is relative. Tesla had better be damn sure that they and the buyer have the same view of "superior". One example: Some signature buyers have ordered a car with 3 individually moving seats in the second row. Now Tesla is saying that the 2nd row seats in the 3-seat configuration don't move individually. I can easily see that people might be upset that this feature suddenly disappeared from the product they ordered. I know I would.

Who here seriously imagines that Musk is going to unveil a phenomenal SUV with second row seats as a work of art that don't fold flat and with a recline control clearly visible on the side that does not work????
The control is one solid piece, which indicates that the seat back can't individually move. The control is most likely back/forth as well as tilt forward/backwards. This is needed to move the seats forward like this:

tr5olqe.png
 
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From what I am seeing around here, what we have going in to the Model X unveiling is not a ridiculously optimistic picture, it is a ridiculously pessimistic picture.

BTW - if Musk reconfirms confidence in end of year numbers in addition to quashing silly non functioning seat rumors, there is $30 of upside by end of play Thursday.

I don't think the picture is unreasonably pessimistic from the standpoint of Model X reservation holders. Model X is 2 years late, company communication on features has been downright terrible, and I think customers are perfectly justified in being pissed off. My expectation is that all of this will be forgiven if, in around 24 hours from now, Tesla reveals a Model X that is shockingly great. If there are surprises that justify the 2 year delay, the negativity will evaporate.

As far as impact on TSLA, it is all about guidance for the remainder of the year. Going to a new production line and adding the complexity of a second product (with only 30% parts commonality with the existing Model S) is a significant challenge.
 
It's another thing to give wrong information about a product that the buyers have put down a $40,000 deposit on and are paying $132,000+ for.

No different than what Apple said about iPhone 6s battery life pre-launch, and it doesn't look like Apple is catastrophically crashing.

I know people always come back with "But it's a $130k car!". Someone who can afford to plunk down a $40k interest-free deposit for three years on a $130k+ car is certainly not hurting for cash, and likely is spending far less, relatively speaking, than your average joe-schmoe with negative net worth plunking down $700-800+ on an iPhone 6s loan. As we always say at my employer, "Don't pretend to best know how to spend other people's money."

Also, Musk doesn't want anyone to know about this neat thing called a deferral. It can let that person who wants to wait until a test drive or all features are known, to wait until they can test drive or know all features before ordering.

I'm expecting that anything and everything with "seatgate" will blow away. Even the most hardcore of haters will still come back to the MX, because honestly, what competition will they go to that's better? Which other SUV is going to allow you to sit multiple passengers while still retaining tremendously huge storage space? The production frunks look absolutely cavernous, much moreso than the prototypes.

I'm still not expecting much of a bump for the MX (delivery numbers will be the story of the day, I'm guessing), but I do expect the glowing reviews will help float the price higher as we head toward the prize that is Q1 2016.
 
No different than what Apple said about iPhone 6s battery life pre-launch, and it doesn't look like Apple is catastrophically crashing.
I'm not familiar with the 6s battery life claims, but I don't think this is an euivalent situation. Something more equivalent would be if Apple claimed that the phone had 4G and then it didn't. The battery life doesn't really affect how you can use the phone, you just need to charge it more often. But when the product is lacking specified features, that's much more likely to affect the buying decision.

I'm expecting that anything and everything with "seatgate" will blow away. Even the most hardcore of haters will still come back to the MX, because honestly, what competition will they go to that's better? Which other SUV is going to allow you to sit multiple passengers while still retaining tremendously huge storage space? The production frunks look absolutely cavernous, much moreso than the prototypes.
The total storage space may be huge, but that doesn't help if the storage space is so inconveniently shaped that you can't utilize it for common tasks. The frunk is nice, sure, but it can be hard to fit half a couch in the frunk and half a couch in the back of the car. I'm certain if the Model X doesn't satisfatorily meet expectations, people won't buy it. As to what else people will buy, some options:

- Model S + pickup
- Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (folding seats!)
- Model 3

My solution would be to continue sitting on the fence until the Model 3 crossover comes along. I don't need a new car immediately.
I'm still not expecting much of a bump for the MX (delivery numbers will be the story of the day, I'm guessing), but I do expect the glowing reviews will help float the price higher as we head toward the prize that is Q1 2016.
I think if the car has sub-par storage capabilities, this will be noted in many/most reviews. Now, ultimately, this doesn't matter for Tesla long term, as they will probably continue to be supply limited through 2016, but it may colour perceptions.
 
I don't think the picture is unreasonably pessimistic from the standpoint of Model X reservation holders.

For starters the first 100 or so reservation holders, people like Bonnie, that have faced the question of configuring prior to the reveal are the most committed Tesla supporters, they are not the majority of anything (not the majority or even a significant percentage of customers or shareholders) and finally you have no idea what has been said to them in private or under NDA. Most likely they are laughing in their beards at this negativity. A $40,000 deposit for exclusivity to be at the head of a line of 30,000 people that also want what you want is entirely optional. People have been trading places at the head of the line for new Ferrari vehicles forever with nowhere close to 30,000 people interested in buying them.

As for "a significant challenge" you might want to get in tune with what that means at Tesla. A significant challenge overcome equals a significant value proposition and a significant competitive advantage. If anything they do or have done to date was easy they would have no moat. They have a huge moat.

Want to know what difficult looks like? Try building a fleet-wide OTA network with deep level access and control of vehicle configuration and service status when NADA members own your customer relationships and have a well established legal claim to the lion's share of your service revenues - you can't even update software without a dealer recall. Pity Google trying to build an AI navigable map with three or four vehicles on the roads versus Tesla with upwards of 50,000 connected vehicles equipped with a full site of sensors monitoring everything from machine vision to accelerometers, GPS and steering angles cumulatively and collaboratively learning how people navigate roads in all conditions day and night the world over. Pity Uber trying to dissolve the cost of gasoline, maintenance, depreciation and drivers versus Tesla - do you really think Musk is going to pat Kalanick on the back and hand him the keys to Tesla's OTA network, charging network and service network to rule AI transportation as a service rather than just cutting him out as a middle man? I think not. Making a hailing and billing app is the easy part and Uber can only dream of having Tesla's AI navigable maps. FYI Musk's new online payment processor Stripe is already being used by Uber competitor Lyft.

Tesla is dealing with the challenges that actually matter, hating on them is understandable if they are beating a path to threatening your livelihood but very difficult to understand at teslamotorsclub.com
 
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you have no idea what has been said to them in private or under NDA. Most likely they are laughing in their beards at this negativity.

This is baseless speculation. I believe Bonnie was asked multiple times on this forum if she was under NDA and she has said (1) No and (2) That even her usual contacts at Tesla were very quiet regarding the Model X.


As for "a significant challenge" you might want to get in tune with what that means at Tesla. A significant challenge overcome equals a significant value proposition and a significant competitive advantage. If anything they do or have done to date was easy they would have no moat. They have a huge moat.

Tesla is dealing with the challenges that actually matter, hating on them is understandable if they are beating a path to threatening your livelihood but very difficult to understand at teslamotorsclub.com

Being realistic and giving constructive criticism are not hating. I bought my shares a long time ago, and have not sold a single share, which should say something about my opinions.

I have believed for years that Tesla is at the vanguard of an inflection point in transportation. I also believe that Tesla has the potential to grow to the size of Apple. However, that does not stop me from voicing my concerns about the company.
 
For starters the first 100 or so reservation holders, people like Bonnie, that have faced the question of configuring prior to the reveal are the most committed Tesla supporters, they are not the majority of anything (not the majority or even a significant percentage of customers or shareholders) and finally you have no idea what has been said to them in private or under NDA. Most likely they are laughing in their beards at this negativity.

Bonnie has a beard!?
 
No big surprises in the reveal. Just some new details:

- HEPA filter
- New nose design
- Auto-opening/closing front doors

The reveal could have been better, there has been a lot of speculation around possible features:

- Laser lights
- Adjustable dimming on the wind screen
- Some magical fold-flat solution for the second row
- Surround view or rear view mirror/camera
- Etc.

That these features weren't revealed could be negative, but I think the reveal is mostly neutral. It's good that delivieries are starting.
 
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